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week three of our new video podcast I’m
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super excited to be talking to Mary
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Russell we have had the privilege of
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working together a lot lately and I’m
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super excited about talking to you for a
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bunch of reasons I had a really hard
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time narrowing down the topic so we are
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actually gonna talk about a few
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different things I’m hoping one of the
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things I thought would be really great
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is if you could explain your role and
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what you do I am a child and family
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counselor I work with the Sequoias try
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but I also work in private practice and
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the population that you work with well
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you work with lots of different people
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don’t you yeah but mostly families and
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kids and I have a lot of clients kid the
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kids are transgender and a lot of kids
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that have trauma related needs and a lot
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of kids and various spots in foster care
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or adoption and the work that we have
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done together one of the one of the
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target topics I’m just going to launch
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right into is had the work I do now as a
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regulation resilience coach I love it
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when I have the opportunity to not only
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work with a family and kids but to also
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work in conjunction with a mental health
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professional in supporting a family and
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kids and that has been something we have
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gotten to do and I I love that and I
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thought we could talk a little bit about
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how we work together to support a family
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and what the difference between B and
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coaching is okay that’s a great idea
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yeah yeah so maybe you could talk about
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how you support families as a start and
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then how I get involved as a support to
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that yeah um I think that you are the
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first regulation coach mentor kind of
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person
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and to work with and I wish that every
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kid that I worked with had a tough for
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sure but yeah my role is to like meet
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the kid and assess the where the kid and
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the family are at and assess the what’s
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occurred in the past so a lot of times
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with kids I’m getting stacks of
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paperwork from the like from courts
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enforcer care agencies so kind of like
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compiling this history and then sorting
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out what we can tell this kid has been
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through and then what would be helpful
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now and working with the parent on
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making space for both helping this kid
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process what they’ve endured and out
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like how do we parent how can I cut you
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in parenting this child now with what
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they have going on and lots of room
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through play for the kids to process
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their trauma and you’ve pretty much stay
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for kids that are in the foster care
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system you will stay with the kiddo
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right you’ll like move with them yeah
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through from placement to placement
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often yeah I have kids who’ve been
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through seven placements and I’m the one
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constant yeah so important and then and
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so we have come to work together when I
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have gotten called to support a kiddo
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at home in crisis so I sometimes will
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get called in to support a family in the
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home in the first originally that’s
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sometimes how I’m how I get in touch
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with a family is there will be
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identified attachment and trauma related
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challenges and I come in as somebody who
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has been there and has been through the
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experience of learning the nuances of
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parenting a child with attachment and
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trauma related stuff and work with
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parents to kind of make the paradigm
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shifts and understand what the different
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kind of needs are and what approaches
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work with kids and then work with kids
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to sort of get regulated and build
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resilience at home and it’s really great
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when we get to work together because
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then it feels like we’ve got this
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holistic approach to support a family
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that I know I would have loved to have
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or I did love when I did have that I did
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have that early on for my kids but it
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was really hard to come by
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yeah um so that’s been a really that’s
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really really neat thing and I know that
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for myself one of the things that made
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me really excited about having you on
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this whatever this is on this video
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podcast is that you are a mental health
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professional that really understands the
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impact of trauma on neurology and that
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behavior is brain based and I think that
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that is part of what makes their well
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it’s a lot of what makes their behavior
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so much different and maybe you could
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talk a little bit about how that those
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brain based differences translates into
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how kids play
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yeah well all kids are communicating a
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story about their internal world when
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they’re playing and they are my belief
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is that people are really wired to heal
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so when I am watching kids play in
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session or just everywhere in the world
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that you get to see kids play which
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they’re always doing they’re trying to
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sort through something and
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for some kids with trauma related needs
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some kids are that I’m and like 8 min at
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different ages like 3 4 & 8 like I’m
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saying kids that kind of don’t know how
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to play like they didn’t have the
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opportunity to there was so much chaos
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and danger that they were kind of in
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this frozen the frozen part of the
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trauma response and didn’t have
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opportunities or were prenta fied really
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young they had to be little adults
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pretty early on yes with kids it’s
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almost like I’m teaching them how to
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play or not teaching them I’m like
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getting the things out of the way that
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get in the way of their innate knowing
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right it usually comes out they get into
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it right or figuring out the way that
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they do play like the playroom with toys
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is too overwhelming but maybe that kid
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more outside you can see the play come
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out like if you kick a ball or right do
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you I this is just a question that’s
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always on my mind I wonder if other
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parents have struggled with this I know
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for me for example and I’m just gonna
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just say for me there were certain areas
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of play that when my with my daughter
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and we’ve talked about this now she’s an
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adult but um that when there were
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certain ways that she played and certain
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things that she played that really got
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to me what was hard for me I had a
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really hard time with it
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um and do you see that a lot yeah I I
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think that I think that it can be really
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good when you’re teamed up with a
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therapist early on and you’re
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articulating this I think there’s a lot
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of way that play can be hard for adults
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and that your sense of like this thing
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is too much for me to really honor it
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and have language around like this is a
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really good activity to do with your
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counselor right because a lot of the
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like violence kind of shuts parents down
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sometimes kids will be doing they’ll be
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sexually acting out with toys and it’s
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overwhelming to the kids
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yeah those are the two the violence and
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the sexual acting out and those are
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great for the therapist to wrap into
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their treatment yeah and and you’re
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being authentic with your kid and cuz
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your kid can read when you get
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uncomfortable for all this tensing up or
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you kind of stop breathing your kid can
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feel that so it helps them attune to
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themselves and realize you’re tuned to
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them when you’re like wow this is a
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really this is a really good part of the
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play to take to your session on Tuesday
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yeah I wish I had known that because
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really with my with my daughter it was
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really around dolls when she was playing
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with dolls yeah that dolls or Barbies or
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something like that I just had this body
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response of it just got to me because
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and and what I realized for me what it
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was was that her way of playing with
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dolls was having power over them and it
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wasn’t you know it wasn’t anything
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specific it was just the general way
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that she played with dolls was very
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power over and it and it really did put
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me into a different state in it so and I
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didn’t know then what was going on for
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me then but I did end up finally talking
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to a therapist about it but honestly if
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I’m being really transparent I really
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tried to avoid her playing with dolls
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you know and and I really regret that I
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feel like I really that was a really bad
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call on my part
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early on I wish I had known better
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because now that I know so much more
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about brain development and and recovery
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I know that that play was so important
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burger right and and that but it was
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also good that you listen to yourself
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and you work because like her saying if
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you weren’t fully there so it’s worse
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off that kids can feels like struggling
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through something because they could
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perceive it as you’re not delighting
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me right really you’re triggered like
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yeah yeah and and I think that is a
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great like segue into the idea of
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parents getting triggered you know like
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just parents getting triggered in
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general and and being able to learn how
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to manage when you get triggered right I
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think there’s so much I like the
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community that you’re in where people
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get to talk about that it like like the
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other thing honest about what’s hard
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about parenting and but I see all these
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things that are like why it’s important
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to place your kid and and I don’t hear
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people addressing why it really sucks to
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play sometimes even though and a lot of
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people really hate it and it does bring
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up a lot and I think for people who have
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Trump adults you have trauma or weren’t
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allowed to play as kids it’s like they
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don’t know how to play and they don’t
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know how to let go and if you have
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parents with addiction stuff it can be
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really hard to let go of being serious
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because that is the best way you know
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how to feel validated was to be hyper
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serious so somebody needing to play with
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you it that creates this inner turmoil
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and kids can feel it absolutely and I
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think I you you saying that just you
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know so many people that I know and even
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myself included there are certain things
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I think it’s so such a broad thing ii
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don’t know what is gonna trigger you or
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what is gonna get to you as a kid i was
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a very fearful child like i was a very
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cautious and fearful child my daughter
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however super adventurous and
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adventure-seeking and risk-seeking
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so when it came to things that required
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risk you know and she was all in and
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ready to take risk i would get really
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scared no and I would have to like like
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for example riding a bike I did not
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expect that it was gonna be a like total
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problem for me to teach her how to ride
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a bike mm-hmm but it was I had to walk
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my husband was like you go inside now it
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was like I just became this like it we
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can it can be this certain activity that
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it can also be the age that they are so
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and your kid being nine just them being
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nine can activate any wounding you had
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at nine unfinished business you have
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from being nine this was like really
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anything becomes an opportunity to be
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triggered which hopefully that
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understanding can give us even more
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capacity freshing but for kids like how
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anything how they anything can be a
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trigger to them you know right and I
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think to another thing along those lines
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that I that I noticed that a lot of
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parents get kind of stuck in I think
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when our kids are doing saying playing
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in ways that are that that
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things for us that’s when we get locked
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down as parents right that’s when when
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we’re under those that stress that’s
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when we are not as skillful that’s know
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well and also for yeah exactly and to
286
00:14:43,009 –> 00:14:48,230
add to that I think a lot of times with
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people who are raising kids who are
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going to like struggle more in the world
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there’s like this protectiveness where
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you’re like I want my kid you know we’re
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animals and we want our we want our kid
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to fit in the pack so they don’t get
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pushed out of the pack and start you
294
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know it’s like it’s very this primal
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response so if our kids being what we
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perceive is like super weird or super
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difficult in play we want to like clamp
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down on it like I want you to be
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accepted in the world so if kids are
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00:15:16,519 –> 00:15:23,540
being like harsh or weird or really
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competitive or um like you like you’re
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00:15:23,540 –> 00:15:27,639
saying with your daughter it was like
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00:15:24,649 –> 00:15:30,230
her her power over stuff when really she
304
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she needed to go through that cycle so
305
00:15:30,230 –> 00:15:34,730
she was do would do it less in the world
306
00:15:32,269 –> 00:15:38,149
it’s like that was her spot to do it and
307
00:15:34,730 –> 00:15:41,720
I’m sure she found other ways so oh yeah
308
00:15:38,149 –> 00:15:45,829
we’ll find another way they will um I
309
00:15:41,720 –> 00:15:47,990
know that we can just let if we can just
310
00:15:45,829 –> 00:15:51,050
let our kids be a little bit terrible in
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00:15:47,990 –> 00:15:52,699
the play or a little bit violent if it’s
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00:15:51,050 –> 00:15:54,319
like sometimes it’s like if they can get
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00:15:52,699 –> 00:15:55,970
it out here it’s like they saw it maybe
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00:15:54,319 –> 00:15:57,860
they saw violence in their life or they
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00:15:55,970 –> 00:16:00,260
saw it in a game and they need to get
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out so it doesn’t come out another way
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00:16:00,260 –> 00:16:09,279
with another kid yeah and and I think
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00:16:04,010 –> 00:16:12,319
that’s so great to hear a professional
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00:16:09,279 –> 00:16:14,569
give that perspective because I think as
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00:16:12,319 –> 00:16:16,459
parents we go ooh they’re playing like
321
00:16:14,569 –> 00:16:19,699
that they’re gonna do that for real
322
00:16:16,459 –> 00:16:23,360
right yeah right yeah because there’s a
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00:16:19,699 –> 00:16:24,829
pressure to to play and be a fun parent
324
00:16:23,360 –> 00:16:26,839
but you also have the pressure to teach
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00:16:24,829 –> 00:16:30,709
a social skill and it’s hard to know
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00:16:26,839 –> 00:16:31,250
when to do which it absolutely is you’re
327
00:16:30,709 –> 00:16:34,569
right
328
00:16:31,250 –> 00:16:34,569
that’s like trigonometry
329
00:16:35,150 –> 00:16:41,160
so hard
330
00:16:37,760 –> 00:16:48,840
but my recommendation to parents would
331
00:16:41,160 –> 00:16:54,860
be get do the play and then do the play
332
00:16:48,840 –> 00:16:54,860
and then do the social skill yeah yeah
333
00:16:57,170 –> 00:17:10,589
oh he asked about violent video games I
334
00:17:08,329 –> 00:17:12,780
don’t know I think that they kind of
335
00:17:10,589 –> 00:17:14,550
work for some kids it seems I I don’t
336
00:17:12,780 –> 00:17:16,440
know I I don’t quite have an answer that
337
00:17:14,550 –> 00:17:19,079
one cuz I noticed that it seems
338
00:17:16,440 –> 00:17:23,640
cathartic for some kids and then it some
339
00:17:19,079 –> 00:17:28,380
kids talking it’s family my family I
340
00:17:23,640 –> 00:17:31,500
think it’s brain by brain yeah no I
341
00:17:28,380 –> 00:17:34,170
think a lot of kids there are some kids
342
00:17:31,500 –> 00:17:37,530
that I what I’ve observed is that some
343
00:17:34,170 –> 00:17:40,370
kids can’t do it at all and just
344
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activates complete dysregulation
345
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completely focus on you you immediately
346
00:17:44,310 –> 00:17:50,010
after the game you see and hear exactly
347
00:17:46,830 –> 00:17:52,980
what’s in the game and that some kids
348
00:17:50,010 –> 00:17:55,920
are able to separate it and it not do
349
00:17:52,980 –> 00:17:58,200
that for them some kids it’s a it’s a
350
00:17:55,920 –> 00:18:02,010
like you said it’s a it’s almost a
351
00:17:58,200 –> 00:18:04,530
regulator if it’s it’s like I got to
352
00:18:02,010 –> 00:18:09,000
have control this time so it can be
353
00:18:04,530 –> 00:18:12,090
cathartic yeah and then and then some
354
00:18:09,000 –> 00:18:14,400
kids it’s all about how much time you
355
00:18:12,090 –> 00:18:17,820
know like it’s not too long or if it’s
356
00:18:14,400 –> 00:18:21,090
not you know yeah it’s and or the timing
357
00:18:17,820 –> 00:18:22,770
in the day like if it’s you know I think
358
00:18:21,090 –> 00:18:29,010
there’s just a lot of nuance to that
359
00:18:22,770 –> 00:18:31,890
yeah I work with parents and I know you
360
00:18:29,010 –> 00:18:34,140
work with parents a lot on new
361
00:18:31,890 –> 00:18:38,100
approaches and different approaches
362
00:18:34,140 –> 00:18:40,560
because of different neurology right or
363
00:18:38,100 –> 00:18:43,170
addressing neurology in a different way
364
00:18:40,560 –> 00:18:47,300
because the neurology is different yeah
365
00:18:43,170 –> 00:18:49,200
then under stress going back to those
366
00:18:47,300 –> 00:18:51,900
feelings that you were talking about
367
00:18:49,200 –> 00:18:58,320
before if I want my kid to fit in yeah
368
00:18:51,900 –> 00:19:00,870
you know and any I you know ideas and
369
00:18:58,320 –> 00:19:03,360
tips for sort of breathing through that
370
00:19:00,870 –> 00:19:07,170
or recognizing when they’re doing that
371
00:19:03,360 –> 00:19:11,070
and how to get through that yeah I I
372
00:19:07,170 –> 00:19:12,950
think you I think well it’s it’s tricky
373
00:19:11,070 –> 00:19:15,930
and this time of copán her parents are
374
00:19:12,950 –> 00:19:18,660
there on duty all day and they used to
375
00:19:15,930 –> 00:19:20,940
be on duty for six hours at the end of
376
00:19:18,660 –> 00:19:25,170
the day or something so such a
377
00:19:20,940 –> 00:19:27,870
difference now but I think as much as
378
00:19:25,170 –> 00:19:32,010
parents can pause and get regulated
379
00:19:27,870 –> 00:19:34,530
first so it can be helpful with kids if
380
00:19:32,010 –> 00:19:36,660
there is a structured for some kids
381
00:19:34,530 –> 00:19:38,670
neurology a structured playtime so this
382
00:19:36,660 –> 00:19:40,800
like this is me and you it’s our special
383
00:19:38,670 –> 00:19:44,010
playtime it doesn’t actually have to be
384
00:19:40,800 –> 00:19:45,660
super long and but before if parents
385
00:19:44,010 –> 00:19:47,520
can’t what I didn’t had a parent be like
386
00:19:45,660 –> 00:19:49,140
I just had to drink coffee before like I
387
00:19:47,520 –> 00:19:52,500
just wasn’t bringing anything Susie
388
00:19:49,140 –> 00:19:55,410
Azzam to it or my trauma made it so I
389
00:19:52,500 –> 00:19:57,600
went kind of like I would kind of shut
390
00:19:55,410 –> 00:20:02,160
down before so I just kind of need to
391
00:19:57,600 –> 00:20:07,670
get myself get myself in the game yeah
392
00:20:02,160 –> 00:20:09,120
need to do to get regulated breathe
393
00:20:07,670 –> 00:20:11,070
right
394
00:20:09,120 –> 00:20:12,990
trying to come I mean if you’re working
395
00:20:11,070 –> 00:20:14,730
with the therapist then you can comfort
396
00:20:12,990 –> 00:20:16,680
your you know or on your own you can
397
00:20:14,730 –> 00:20:19,650
comfort your little kid parts that are
398
00:20:16,680 –> 00:20:21,240
getting activated in the play because we
399
00:20:19,650 –> 00:20:24,570
actually really have an opportunity to
400
00:20:21,240 –> 00:20:26,970
heal with our kids which is pretty
401
00:20:24,570 –> 00:20:28,740
amazing it’s pretty amazing yeah they’ll
402
00:20:26,970 –> 00:20:35,970
bring they’ll bring to light anything
403
00:20:28,740 –> 00:20:38,640
but stairs I didn’t even know that it
404
00:20:35,970 –> 00:20:42,030
was I mean you don’t even know things
405
00:20:38,640 –> 00:20:44,580
that are gonna yeah no stone left
406
00:20:42,030 –> 00:20:53,400
unturned is that what this thing is like
407
00:20:44,580 –> 00:21:01,020
yes yes also wondered about in terms of
408
00:20:53,400 –> 00:21:05,270
play therapy play how how when if your
409
00:21:01,020 –> 00:21:10,940
parent and you’re seeing your kids maybe
410
00:21:05,270 –> 00:21:13,890
do or say alarming things during play
411
00:21:10,940 –> 00:21:15,960
what to do about that because I have
412
00:21:13,890 –> 00:21:18,540
that happen I have I get that question a
413
00:21:15,960 –> 00:21:22,320
lot as a coach like what do I do I saw
414
00:21:18,540 –> 00:21:24,150
them say this or do this thing yeah if
415
00:21:22,320 –> 00:21:26,160
you if you were to the point where it
416
00:21:24,150 –> 00:21:28,680
kind of makes you freeze then be like
417
00:21:26,160 –> 00:21:30,300
I’m really glad but greet it with like
418
00:21:28,680 –> 00:21:33,390
this openness like I’m so glad you
419
00:21:30,300 –> 00:21:35,640
brought that or I’m so glad you said
420
00:21:33,390 –> 00:21:37,950
that and that’s a great question or
421
00:21:35,640 –> 00:21:40,950
that’s a great thing to bring to your
422
00:21:37,950 –> 00:21:42,810
counselor person yeah and if they don’t
423
00:21:40,950 –> 00:21:44,220
have one that might be the time to look
424
00:21:42,810 –> 00:21:46,110
for what know might be the time to look
425
00:21:44,220 –> 00:21:51,870
for one yet you notice you’re hitting a
426
00:21:46,110 –> 00:21:54,900
wall yeah yeah do you have any ideas or
427
00:21:51,870 –> 00:21:57,300
suggestions for people who maybe are who
428
00:21:54,900 –> 00:22:01,440
do know recognize that they have a hard
429
00:21:57,300 –> 00:22:03,360
time playing like how to get started cuz
430
00:22:01,440 –> 00:22:05,280
I know that I have a lot of parents that
431
00:22:03,360 –> 00:22:07,890
tell me I don’t play
432
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:12,060
I just don’t play yeah and there and
433
00:22:07,890 –> 00:22:13,920
it’s like I think it is I some cultures
434
00:22:12,060 –> 00:22:16,050
don’t play with kids and those kids are
435
00:22:13,920 –> 00:22:18,090
more like you know around a miraculous
436
00:22:16,050 –> 00:22:20,850
adults they don’t think that it’s
437
00:22:18,090 –> 00:22:23,070
totally necessary it is kind of
438
00:22:20,850 –> 00:22:27,470
unavoidable but a good starting point is
439
00:22:23,070 –> 00:22:30,180
just trying to find some common ground
440
00:22:27,470 –> 00:22:36,980
anything that you share interest in you
441
00:22:30,180 –> 00:22:39,480
can if you if imaginative play is is
442
00:22:36,980 –> 00:22:42,030
where you get lost then you can pick
443
00:22:39,480 –> 00:22:43,530
something more structured like I took
444
00:22:42,030 –> 00:22:44,940
ten of your toys and I wrapped them in
445
00:22:43,530 –> 00:22:48,270
newspaper and I hid them around the
446
00:22:44,940 –> 00:22:49,890
house and go find them it’s like you’re
447
00:22:48,270 –> 00:22:53,250
I mean you just have to sit in the chair
448
00:22:49,890 –> 00:22:54,870
and be like oh you did it you know and
449
00:22:53,250 –> 00:22:57,060
the kids looking and coming back to you
450
00:22:54,870 –> 00:22:59,730
and they can see you set this up you’re
451
00:22:57,060 –> 00:23:03,390
enthusiastic right but you are not
452
00:22:59,730 –> 00:23:07,140
getting in whatever state imaginative
453
00:23:03,390 –> 00:23:09,180
play puts you in so I mean maybe journal
454
00:23:07,140 –> 00:23:09,930
about what kind of play you like what
455
00:23:09,180 –> 00:23:11,430
you don’t like
456
00:23:09,930 –> 00:23:15,020
I would gern a little bit about what
457
00:23:11,430 –> 00:23:15,020
playing for you was like as a kid
458
00:23:15,380 –> 00:23:21,990
so so our youth are you suggesting then
459
00:23:19,290 –> 00:23:25,440
that parents maybe give some thought to
460
00:23:21,990 –> 00:23:27,660
what was play like for you as a kid what
461
00:23:25,440 –> 00:23:29,610
what did you like about it what did you
462
00:23:27,660 –> 00:23:32,190
not like about it or you know like what
463
00:23:29,610 –> 00:23:35,120
would be something you could do and and
464
00:23:32,190 –> 00:23:38,810
does it even need to be super structured
465
00:23:35,120 –> 00:23:41,250
no I don’t think so I think it can be
466
00:23:38,810 –> 00:23:42,840
yeah I think from you would have seen
467
00:23:41,250 –> 00:23:46,560
with a lot of parents who’ve had a block
468
00:23:42,840 –> 00:23:49,200
is that just having somebody say a lot
469
00:23:46,560 –> 00:23:50,940
of people don’t like playing and it can
470
00:23:49,200 –> 00:23:53,250
be connected to something you like just
471
00:23:50,940 –> 00:23:54,570
the acknowledgement helps people turn
472
00:23:53,250 –> 00:23:57,780
the page they like I played every day
473
00:23:54,570 –> 00:23:59,760
this week you know so just a pencil I
474
00:23:57,780 –> 00:24:03,150
give them self a moment to acknowledge
475
00:23:59,760 –> 00:24:05,570
yeah this is kind of terrible I’ve seen
476
00:24:03,150 –> 00:24:08,910
people turn the page pretty quick and
477
00:24:05,570 –> 00:24:10,740
here’s another question like in in
478
00:24:08,910 –> 00:24:12,800
two-parent homes because of course
479
00:24:10,740 –> 00:24:16,440
sometimes it’s just a one parent home
480
00:24:12,800 –> 00:24:19,320
but in two-parent homes is it totally
481
00:24:16,440 –> 00:24:22,890
okay if one parent is the play parent I
482
00:24:19,320 –> 00:24:27,750
think so is it yeah I just wonder about
483
00:24:22,890 –> 00:24:30,870
that if it’s if it’s okay if or I really
484
00:24:27,750 –> 00:24:32,670
do or if it really does if it really is
485
00:24:30,870 –> 00:24:35,600
important that you have that play
486
00:24:32,670 –> 00:24:38,310
connection with both parents you know
487
00:24:35,600 –> 00:24:40,890
the plate plays important because it
488
00:24:38,310 –> 00:24:46,170
kids build you know they’re using their
489
00:24:40,890 –> 00:24:47,730
muscles and brains they are but there’s
490
00:24:46,170 –> 00:24:50,580
a lot of self-esteem building that
491
00:24:47,730 –> 00:24:52,320
actually happens in play that I think
492
00:24:50,580 –> 00:24:55,950
that some adults don’t know about so
493
00:24:52,320 –> 00:24:59,160
when a kid is like this cup is a
494
00:24:55,950 –> 00:25:00,810
rocketship and you’re like like amazing
495
00:24:59,160 –> 00:25:04,320
rocket ship or whatever all in the
496
00:25:00,810 –> 00:25:06,600
rocket ship you joining in their kid
497
00:25:04,320 –> 00:25:13,500
world is such a like a self-esteem
498
00:25:06,600 –> 00:25:15,840
booster right um yeah because there’s
499
00:25:13,500 –> 00:25:18,750
other ways to do that’s kind of boosting
500
00:25:15,840 –> 00:25:20,610
like that kind of like joining that if
501
00:25:18,750 –> 00:25:22,080
you are not particularly the one that’s
502
00:25:20,610 –> 00:25:25,410
gonna play there’s other ways to do that
503
00:25:22,080 –> 00:25:27,650
but that is important so is the idea
504
00:25:25,410 –> 00:25:31,250
that really for kids
505
00:25:27,650 –> 00:25:33,880
play is their work like so we’re like
506
00:25:31,250 –> 00:25:37,790
play is their work so when we’re
507
00:25:33,880 –> 00:25:41,000
affirming their work and and praising
508
00:25:37,790 –> 00:25:44,360
their work we’re that’s building their
509
00:25:41,000 –> 00:25:45,740
self-esteem yeah yeah that’s really
510
00:25:44,360 –> 00:25:48,770
interesting I never kind of thought of
511
00:25:45,740 –> 00:25:53,240
it that way what you’re describing there
512
00:25:48,770 –> 00:25:56,440
is that what I think of is circle of
513
00:25:53,240 –> 00:25:59,180
security and how it talks about
514
00:25:56,440 –> 00:26:03,470
attunement and delighting in their
515
00:25:59,180 –> 00:26:07,340
presence and that whole looking back and
516
00:26:03,470 –> 00:26:11,740
and seeing that we’ve got this
517
00:26:07,340 –> 00:26:16,220
reciprocal connection and I get you yeah
518
00:26:11,740 –> 00:26:19,670
I kind of like the parent-child
519
00:26:16,220 –> 00:26:22,430
interaction therapy they they they
520
00:26:19,670 –> 00:26:27,230
encourage this playtime with kids that
521
00:26:22,430 –> 00:26:28,610
is basically so parents are coming in
522
00:26:27,230 –> 00:26:29,900
and they’re like my kid won’t listen to
523
00:26:28,610 –> 00:26:33,890
me and then they’re like help me give
524
00:26:29,900 –> 00:26:35,780
this kid consequences and we want to
525
00:26:33,890 –> 00:26:37,730
kind of interrupt that and go back and
526
00:26:35,780 –> 00:26:39,560
say if you build a relationship if you
527
00:26:37,730 –> 00:26:41,450
work on the attachment piece then you’re
528
00:26:39,560 –> 00:26:43,280
actually gonna your kid will listen to
529
00:26:41,450 –> 00:26:46,880
you more naturally because the
530
00:26:43,280 –> 00:26:50,630
relationship is stronger right so and in
531
00:26:46,880 –> 00:26:52,850
that so parents are given not coaching
532
00:26:50,630 –> 00:26:55,940
around this kind of special playtime and
533
00:26:52,850 –> 00:26:57,710
that playtime is its brief it’s like
534
00:26:55,940 –> 00:27:00,050
five minutes a day and it’s creative
535
00:26:57,710 –> 00:27:02,330
play and it’s theirs do you get a box of
536
00:27:00,050 –> 00:27:04,010
toys and they’re not toys that have a
537
00:27:02,330 –> 00:27:06,590
prescribed way to place the kid could
538
00:27:04,010 –> 00:27:09,020
play however with them hello so not like
539
00:27:06,590 –> 00:27:10,970
a coloring book but maybe just a sheet
540
00:27:09,020 –> 00:27:12,170
with crayons or blocks or something that
541
00:27:10,970 –> 00:27:15,020
can be used in any way
542
00:27:12,170 –> 00:27:17,930
got it so when the kid starts playing
543
00:27:15,020 –> 00:27:19,670
you’re copying the kid right so if
544
00:27:17,930 –> 00:27:22,520
they’re using crown this way you’re
545
00:27:19,670 –> 00:27:23,990
using the crane that way and what it
546
00:27:22,520 –> 00:27:27,680
really starts to build as kids are
547
00:27:23,990 –> 00:27:29,600
noticing like oh I have good ideas I’m a
548
00:27:27,680 –> 00:27:32,990
valuable person that somebody wants to
549
00:27:29,600 –> 00:27:34,900
be by and like they’re an adult modeling
550
00:27:32,990 –> 00:27:39,830
what they’re doing after me like wow
551
00:27:34,900 –> 00:27:41,950
that’s so great dad that yeah it’s
552
00:27:39,830 –> 00:27:45,290
really lovely
553
00:27:41,950 –> 00:27:54,559
so Mary can you talk about the
554
00:27:45,290 –> 00:27:57,230
importance of praise well kids are in in
555
00:27:54,559 –> 00:28:00,830
kids younger years you’re very
556
00:27:57,230 –> 00:28:03,950
developmentally you are building your
557
00:28:00,830 –> 00:28:06,049
identity you are like I am the center of
558
00:28:03,950 –> 00:28:09,200
the worlds right so if the world around
559
00:28:06,049 –> 00:28:10,970
you is not working like you’re losing a
560
00:28:09,200 –> 00:28:14,450
home people are being violent people are
561
00:28:10,970 –> 00:28:16,520
being scary kids can start to develop a
562
00:28:14,450 –> 00:28:18,710
story maybe there’s something wrong with
563
00:28:16,520 –> 00:28:20,870
me because developmentally their job is
564
00:28:18,710 –> 00:28:23,210
to be very focused on themselves right
565
00:28:20,870 –> 00:28:25,549
they are not quite at a spot where they
566
00:28:23,210 –> 00:28:28,160
can say oh that’s because addiction is
567
00:28:25,549 –> 00:28:30,740
very complicated or right these things
568
00:28:28,160 –> 00:28:33,500
that we can know it are on to be true
569
00:28:30,740 –> 00:28:35,929
right poverty is brutal for family it’s
570
00:28:33,500 –> 00:28:38,809
like we can know these later on but as a
571
00:28:35,929 –> 00:28:43,640
kid you’re like oh I might be broken so
572
00:28:38,809 –> 00:28:47,330
if a kid who has endured that if you get
573
00:28:43,640 –> 00:28:49,429
a chance and anything is a chance so
574
00:28:47,330 –> 00:28:50,929
start to reset that narrative it’s like
575
00:28:49,429 –> 00:28:53,570
the tape that’s playing in their head
576
00:28:50,929 –> 00:28:55,429
and before it gets formed it’s kind of
577
00:28:53,570 –> 00:28:57,650
this question like maybe I’m the problem
578
00:28:55,429 –> 00:29:00,140
maybe I’m broken so all that’s still in
579
00:28:57,650 –> 00:29:03,200
question if we have a chance to say no
580
00:29:00,140 –> 00:29:05,690
that’s not it you’re phenomenal look at
581
00:29:03,200 –> 00:29:09,770
all of this we have a chance to
582
00:29:05,690 –> 00:29:14,299
interrupt that becoming their story of
583
00:29:09,770 –> 00:29:16,070
who they are that is amazing and I think
584
00:29:14,299 –> 00:29:18,200
that I’m so glad that you said that
585
00:29:16,070 –> 00:29:20,630
because I think that’s such an important
586
00:29:18,200 –> 00:29:23,510
thing for parents to realize because I
587
00:29:20,630 –> 00:29:27,320
think we do make the mistake of
588
00:29:23,510 –> 00:29:30,350
realizing of not realizing that our kids
589
00:29:27,320 –> 00:29:33,820
have the capacity to understand and
590
00:29:30,350 –> 00:29:37,970
think like adults you know and
591
00:29:33,820 –> 00:29:42,200
especially I think we have we often have
592
00:29:37,970 –> 00:29:45,530
the idea that kids who have moved from
593
00:29:42,200 –> 00:29:49,610
placement to placement or been you know
594
00:29:45,530 –> 00:29:52,250
in in foster placements that they have
595
00:29:49,610 –> 00:29:55,100
this beyond their years knowing and
596
00:29:52,250 –> 00:30:01,570
understanding and
597
00:29:55,100 –> 00:30:05,390
I do but I they also don’t write true
598
00:30:01,570 –> 00:30:08,450
yeah there are a lot of things that they
599
00:30:05,390 –> 00:30:12,340
might have had these way advanced
600
00:30:08,450 –> 00:30:16,520
experiences so in some ways they have
601
00:30:12,340 –> 00:30:19,370
insights profound insights that people
602
00:30:16,520 –> 00:30:23,990
their age do not usually have but then
603
00:30:19,370 –> 00:30:28,100
they also still have whatever age they
604
00:30:23,990 –> 00:30:32,419
are brains that still have perspectives
605
00:30:28,100 –> 00:30:35,510
and thoughts at that age too yeah and
606
00:30:32,419 –> 00:30:38,630
even younger sometimes too yeah
607
00:30:35,510 –> 00:30:40,669
so it’s hard because it gets really
608
00:30:38,630 –> 00:30:43,280
confusing and I think that that’s one of
609
00:30:40,669 –> 00:30:45,289
the things that for me and my parenting
610
00:30:43,280 –> 00:30:49,610
journey one of the things that I have
611
00:30:45,289 –> 00:30:51,470
had to adjust is not only my
612
00:30:49,610 –> 00:30:54,559
expectations and I’m talking about that
613
00:30:51,470 –> 00:30:57,559
all the time and I know that anybody who
614
00:30:54,559 –> 00:30:59,900
is parenting a child with some trauma
615
00:30:57,559 –> 00:31:01,640
related needs I think that that is
616
00:30:59,900 –> 00:31:02,840
something that you learn pretty early on
617
00:31:01,640 –> 00:31:06,880
that you have to adjust your
618
00:31:02,840 –> 00:31:09,830
expectations right but I think that
619
00:31:06,880 –> 00:31:15,500
adjusting your expectations is one thing
620
00:31:09,830 –> 00:31:18,380
but adjusting your lens and adjusting
621
00:31:15,500 –> 00:31:20,960
how you see your child’s gifts is a
622
00:31:18,380 –> 00:31:24,169
whole other thing and not something you
623
00:31:20,960 –> 00:31:28,070
and I have talked about a lot um do you
624
00:31:24,169 –> 00:31:31,360
want to speak to that son yes yeah I
625
00:31:28,070 –> 00:31:33,260
think it’s really understanding
626
00:31:31,360 –> 00:31:36,260
development and trauma will help you
627
00:31:33,260 –> 00:31:38,419
understand that if you say to a kid with
628
00:31:36,260 –> 00:31:41,330
no trauma like I’m sorry didn’t take the
629
00:31:38,419 –> 00:31:43,280
dog food or like feed the dog right that
630
00:31:41,330 –> 00:31:46,179
kid can hear I’m really frustrated you
631
00:31:43,280 –> 00:31:48,710
didn’t feed the dog and I kid with
632
00:31:46,179 –> 00:31:51,200
trauma and abandonment neglect is gonna
633
00:31:48,710 –> 00:31:54,380
hear this here’s more proof you’re
634
00:31:51,200 –> 00:31:57,200
unlovable so you can get a kid that
635
00:31:54,380 –> 00:31:58,850
turns your house upside down and because
636
00:31:57,200 –> 00:32:00,110
you’ve brought up the dog food in these
637
00:31:58,850 –> 00:32:03,620
parents were like I’m just want this kid
638
00:32:00,110 –> 00:32:05,419
to feed the dog and it’s like but what
639
00:32:03,620 –> 00:32:07,549
they experienced was you saying you’re
640
00:32:05,419 –> 00:32:08,240
unlovable which is intolerable I
641
00:32:07,549 –> 00:32:16,309
couldn’t tell her
642
00:32:08,240 –> 00:32:18,380
no and I think that the yeah I like to
643
00:32:16,309 –> 00:32:22,370
think about like labeled praise so being
644
00:32:18,380 –> 00:32:23,929
really specific about the praise it’s
645
00:32:22,370 –> 00:32:25,730
not like you did a good job but like I
646
00:32:23,929 –> 00:32:29,690
really appreciate how you contribute to
647
00:32:25,730 –> 00:32:31,460
the family or but for the skill of like
648
00:32:29,690 –> 00:32:33,590
totally delighting in a kid I feel like
649
00:32:31,460 –> 00:32:37,120
I learned that the best from you and
650
00:32:33,590 –> 00:32:41,750
your husband watching you guys the kids
651
00:32:37,120 –> 00:32:44,450
yeah that really helped me understand I
652
00:32:41,750 –> 00:32:47,420
think it’s something I naturally knew
653
00:32:44,450 –> 00:32:49,190
but I feel like you guys could like be
654
00:32:47,420 –> 00:32:52,309
in the Guinness Book of Records know the
655
00:32:49,190 –> 00:32:54,290
things you can delight in this like you
656
00:32:52,309 –> 00:32:56,540
know these kids like destroying your car
657
00:32:54,290 –> 00:33:02,320
and you’re like this so funny this kids
658
00:32:56,540 –> 00:33:05,450
so funny and it was like genuine delight
659
00:33:02,320 –> 00:33:07,970
that I know this it can feel it makes me
660
00:33:05,450 –> 00:33:09,350
so happy that this kid is doing this
661
00:33:07,970 –> 00:33:11,390
thing that somebody else could
662
00:33:09,350 –> 00:33:12,830
definitely give them response that’ll
663
00:33:11,390 –> 00:33:15,500
feel like you were unlovable
664
00:33:12,830 –> 00:33:20,390
and what they got from y’all was you’re
665
00:33:15,500 –> 00:33:23,750
so funny you know well but I think that
666
00:33:20,390 –> 00:33:26,840
comes from really really understand like
667
00:33:23,750 –> 00:33:30,490
you said really understanding brain
668
00:33:26,840 –> 00:33:33,380
development and understanding and
669
00:33:30,490 –> 00:33:37,580
attachment and trauma like it really
670
00:33:33,380 –> 00:33:41,990
getting to a place where um when things
671
00:33:37,580 –> 00:33:46,070
happen you really understand why they
672
00:33:41,990 –> 00:33:50,600
are happening yes immediately yeah stead
673
00:33:46,070 –> 00:33:55,730
of being stuck in how it feels
674
00:33:50,600 –> 00:33:58,570
yeah happening seeing the kid beyond the
675
00:33:55,730 –> 00:34:01,370
behavior yes
676
00:33:58,570 –> 00:34:05,030
and and that takes a lot of practice and
677
00:34:01,370 –> 00:34:06,710
time you know and the thing I wonder
678
00:34:05,030 –> 00:34:10,280
about so here’s my question for you know
679
00:34:06,710 –> 00:34:16,490
an interviewer it’s like we were saying
680
00:34:10,280 –> 00:34:18,590
before about if you go into your so for
681
00:34:16,490 –> 00:34:20,600
the adult if you go into your story
682
00:34:18,590 –> 00:34:21,280
about play or your experience as a kid
683
00:34:20,600 –> 00:34:23,679
and you
684
00:34:21,280 –> 00:34:26,050
maybe bring more to your kid right I
685
00:34:23,679 –> 00:34:28,570
wonder about that with being able to
686
00:34:26,050 –> 00:34:31,230
delight in your kids you’re saying like
687
00:34:28,570 –> 00:34:33,880
you had to learn that in some ways
688
00:34:31,230 –> 00:34:39,940
did you also have to figure out how to
689
00:34:33,880 –> 00:34:43,270
delight in yourself um definitely I
690
00:34:39,940 –> 00:34:44,409
definitely had to do my own work changed
691
00:34:43,270 –> 00:34:48,159
yourself talkers
692
00:34:44,409 –> 00:34:50,440
yeah for sure and and of course still
693
00:34:48,159 –> 00:34:55,270
there are things I think I I think I
694
00:34:50,440 –> 00:34:57,310
always had I think what it starts with
695
00:34:55,270 –> 00:35:00,550
is having a lot of empathy for your
696
00:34:57,310 –> 00:35:04,300
child right and I think that most people
697
00:35:00,550 –> 00:35:07,030
who are parenting kids who have been
698
00:35:04,300 –> 00:35:09,220
through really tough things start out
699
00:35:07,030 –> 00:35:13,990
with a time with a lot of empathy for
700
00:35:09,220 –> 00:35:16,990
those things and then the intensity and
701
00:35:13,990 –> 00:35:20,500
frequency of that behavior starts to get
702
00:35:16,990 –> 00:35:23,680
to them yeah and they become kind of
703
00:35:20,500 –> 00:35:25,960
compassion fatigue right and that
704
00:35:23,680 –> 00:35:30,790
becomes harder and harder to access
705
00:35:25,960 –> 00:35:33,940
sometimes and I think that for me the
706
00:35:30,790 –> 00:35:38,530
trick has been being able to stay in
707
00:35:33,940 –> 00:35:45,070
that place of remembering why the
708
00:35:38,530 –> 00:35:50,140
behavior is there yeah and understanding
709
00:35:45,070 –> 00:35:54,160
that what actually works to change the
710
00:35:50,140 –> 00:35:57,030
behavior is the opposite of what we all
711
00:35:54,160 –> 00:36:01,690
were taught works to change behavior
712
00:35:57,030 –> 00:36:06,120
right yeah and the idea that like the
713
00:36:01,690 –> 00:36:09,160
way I always look at it now is okay when
714
00:36:06,120 –> 00:36:12,640
there’s when I see in the face of
715
00:36:09,160 –> 00:36:15,580
dysregulation of any kind there’s a
716
00:36:12,640 –> 00:36:18,640
window of opportunity to lay new neural
717
00:36:15,580 –> 00:36:21,610
pathways and if I can respond to that in
718
00:36:18,640 –> 00:36:26,260
a way that helps to lay neural pathways
719
00:36:21,610 –> 00:36:28,840
then I’m helping and not harming yeah
720
00:36:26,260 –> 00:36:31,570
part of that means seeing the child for
721
00:36:28,840 –> 00:36:35,840
who they are and appreciating them for
722
00:36:31,570 –> 00:36:40,070
who they are and noticing who they are
723
00:36:35,840 –> 00:36:42,350
and I think that that for us and and
724
00:36:40,070 –> 00:36:45,230
then and I think over the years just
725
00:36:42,350 –> 00:36:47,660
working with so many kids getting to see
726
00:36:45,230 –> 00:36:50,360
that in my own kids might I mean my kids
727
00:36:47,660 –> 00:36:56,780
have said some of the most hilarious and
728
00:36:50,360 –> 00:36:58,880
profound and like things I ever heard in
729
00:36:56,780 –> 00:37:02,410
my life and then the kids I’ve worked
730
00:36:58,880 –> 00:37:06,380
with the same thing is true you know and
731
00:37:02,410 –> 00:37:10,130
and I think that that’s the the reward
732
00:37:06,380 –> 00:37:12,890
and the joy of being around and working
733
00:37:10,130 –> 00:37:15,080
with kids and having kids in your life
734
00:37:12,890 –> 00:37:20,110
that had experienced trauma is that they
735
00:37:15,080 –> 00:37:24,950
do have this depth that is pretty
736
00:37:20,110 –> 00:37:27,320
remarkable absolutely yeah and I would
737
00:37:24,950 –> 00:37:32,690
say for the kids I’m thinking of that
738
00:37:27,320 –> 00:37:34,520
I’ve seen you and G work with I am
739
00:37:32,690 –> 00:37:36,680
amazed by how willing the kids are to
740
00:37:34,520 –> 00:37:38,990
accept this beautiful narrative of
741
00:37:36,680 –> 00:37:42,080
themselves even though they’ve had so
742
00:37:38,990 –> 00:37:45,560
many situations where this negative
743
00:37:42,080 –> 00:37:46,700
thing is reinforced right and that’s the
744
00:37:45,560 –> 00:37:49,930
what I was saying earlier like I really
745
00:37:46,700 –> 00:37:52,340
think were wired to heal like you know
746
00:37:49,930 –> 00:37:55,190
the whole world could be reinforcing
747
00:37:52,340 –> 00:37:57,250
this kid is just a bad kid and then you
748
00:37:55,190 –> 00:38:00,500
all come in and you present this other
749
00:37:57,250 –> 00:38:02,510
possibility and that kids like that’s it
750
00:38:00,500 –> 00:38:05,420
that’s who I am that’s right I’m awesome
751
00:38:02,510 –> 00:38:11,900
yeah they’re like they’re like I knew it
752
00:38:05,420 –> 00:38:14,570
I knew it was that seeing that yes that
753
00:38:11,900 –> 00:38:18,310
is such a great thing when you see that
754
00:38:14,570 –> 00:38:23,360
because and it is really amazing how
755
00:38:18,310 –> 00:38:25,850
receptive to that kids are yeah yeah
756
00:38:23,360 –> 00:38:30,170
once it’s there and if you can roll
757
00:38:25,850 –> 00:38:33,380
through the the explosive the big
758
00:38:30,170 –> 00:38:35,510
reaction but all of it and you can stick
759
00:38:33,380 –> 00:38:40,220
with yet you’re awesome
760
00:38:35,510 –> 00:38:43,100
you are totally awesome yeah it’s
761
00:38:40,220 –> 00:38:47,860
amazing how quickly they’ll get back to
762
00:38:43,100 –> 00:38:47,860
oh yeah right I am awesome right
763
00:38:49,040 –> 00:38:53,390
so as I’m thinking about what when
764
00:38:51,170 –> 00:38:54,830
you’re saying what worked for you was
765
00:38:53,390 –> 00:38:56,960
really getting the point where you
766
00:38:54,830 –> 00:39:00,920
learned the brain science so well that
767
00:38:56,960 –> 00:39:02,030
you could stay rooted in like this is
768
00:39:00,920 –> 00:39:05,450
the truth of what’s occurring
769
00:39:02,030 –> 00:39:09,530
neurologically that that helps you with
770
00:39:05,450 –> 00:39:12,920
kids and in my dream as a therapist and
771
00:39:09,530 –> 00:39:14,930
like family’s healing together because
772
00:39:12,920 –> 00:39:16,910
what I see sometimes with parents is I’m
773
00:39:14,930 –> 00:39:18,920
giving them that information about
774
00:39:16,910 –> 00:39:21,050
brains and then I’m giving them the
775
00:39:18,920 –> 00:39:23,540
script like I would be like say exactly
776
00:39:21,050 –> 00:39:25,910
this to the kid and they’re saying it’s
777
00:39:23,540 –> 00:39:27,740
not landing in the same way and that’s
778
00:39:25,910 –> 00:39:30,170
the thing I’m curious about is if those
779
00:39:27,740 –> 00:39:31,640
pants I my guess is for some of those
780
00:39:30,170 –> 00:39:32,900
pants they’re still being really hard on
781
00:39:31,640 –> 00:39:34,910
themselves I’m really cruel to
782
00:39:32,900 –> 00:39:38,150
themselves they’re not giving that same
783
00:39:34,910 –> 00:39:40,520
empathy and compassion to them so how
784
00:39:38,150 –> 00:39:43,790
can the kid how can they really give it
785
00:39:40,520 –> 00:39:45,680
how can the kid really absorb it main
786
00:39:43,790 –> 00:39:49,070
thing would be the combination that they
787
00:39:45,680 –> 00:39:53,090
really learn why kids are actually they
788
00:39:49,070 –> 00:39:58,420
are and give them some space to be human
789
00:39:53,090 –> 00:40:02,030
too and yes I I think you just totally
790
00:39:58,420 –> 00:40:04,190
honed in on I think that it’s it’s those
791
00:40:02,030 –> 00:40:10,840
I think it’s that and then the other
792
00:40:04,190 –> 00:40:14,980
thing might added dream to that is that
793
00:40:10,840 –> 00:40:18,020
that ability to I don’t know
794
00:40:14,980 –> 00:40:21,770
disregard override whatever you want to
795
00:40:18,020 –> 00:40:24,440
call it the external pressure yeah to be
796
00:40:21,770 –> 00:40:28,790
the same yeah you know because I think
797
00:40:24,440 –> 00:40:34,280
that’s really what what of everything
798
00:40:28,790 –> 00:40:37,130
else that helped me the very most was
799
00:40:34,280 –> 00:40:40,400
the point of surrender when I just went
800
00:40:37,130 –> 00:40:42,470
uncle we are not gonna be the same yeah
801
00:40:40,400 –> 00:40:45,650
we’re not gonna be the same and it is
802
00:40:42,470 –> 00:40:48,890
okay same you and your kid or you and
803
00:40:45,650 –> 00:40:51,050
other families us and other families not
804
00:40:48,890 –> 00:40:53,810
going to look like every other family
805
00:40:51,050 –> 00:40:57,680
and that is totally okay as a matter of
806
00:40:53,810 –> 00:41:01,250
fact it’s even kind of cool yeah you
807
00:40:57,680 –> 00:41:02,040
know I think every parenting group I’ve
808
00:41:01,250 –> 00:41:05,400
done
809
00:41:02,040 –> 00:41:06,750
when we explore triggers most little
810
00:41:05,400 –> 00:41:07,410
sugar is parenting in front of other
811
00:41:06,750 –> 00:41:11,310
people
812
00:41:07,410 –> 00:41:15,660
oh it’s so hard so hard and I will say
813
00:41:11,310 –> 00:41:19,920
that I took care of kids I was a nanny
814
00:41:15,660 –> 00:41:26,640
before I had kids I have spent my entire
815
00:41:19,920 –> 00:41:29,970
adult life around kids I had no idea how
816
00:41:26,640 –> 00:41:33,480
much judgment came with being a parent
817
00:41:29,970 –> 00:41:36,000
right until I actually became a parent
818
00:41:33,480 –> 00:41:44,270
yeah and becoming a parent of children
819
00:41:36,000 –> 00:41:48,030
who do not behave like that is a very
820
00:41:44,270 –> 00:41:52,860
big awakening you know it really is a
821
00:41:48,030 –> 00:41:55,440
very big thing it’s really hard you know
822
00:41:52,860 –> 00:41:57,360
that biological pressure to have your
823
00:41:55,440 –> 00:42:00,120
Wolf’s not get pushed out of the pack
824
00:41:57,360 –> 00:42:04,440
and so you crack down on your little
825
00:42:00,120 –> 00:42:06,690
wolf pup instead like demanding that the
826
00:42:04,440 –> 00:42:09,780
world be make room for these kids which
827
00:42:06,690 –> 00:42:11,250
is really what we have to do but it’s
828
00:42:09,780 –> 00:42:12,960
hard in that moment when your kid is
829
00:42:11,250 –> 00:42:17,280
like throwing stuff in the gas station
830
00:42:12,960 –> 00:42:20,400
or something yes it is it is and then
831
00:42:17,280 –> 00:42:22,950
but just once you get to that place I
832
00:42:20,400 –> 00:42:25,950
think that there’s so much and I tell
833
00:42:22,950 –> 00:42:28,830
this to parents all the time there is so
834
00:42:25,950 –> 00:42:34,440
much freedom you know the freedom so
835
00:42:28,830 –> 00:42:37,020
much freedom in just relaxing into the
836
00:42:34,440 –> 00:42:39,660
idea that yet we’re not going to be
837
00:42:37,020 –> 00:42:43,890
doing things on the same developmental
838
00:42:39,660 –> 00:42:47,510
milestone as everybody else we’re gonna
839
00:42:43,890 –> 00:42:50,430
be celebrating different milestones are
840
00:42:47,510 –> 00:42:52,860
you know what we celebrate is gonna be
841
00:42:50,430 –> 00:42:56,520
different it’s just it’s all gonna be
842
00:42:52,860 –> 00:43:01,110
different and that is totally ok one of
843
00:42:56,520 –> 00:43:06,420
the things I’ve said is is that for us
844
00:43:01,110 –> 00:43:08,010
you know my daughter and I having a
845
00:43:06,420 –> 00:43:11,700
connection we have a really close
846
00:43:08,010 –> 00:43:14,830
connection and we worked really really
847
00:43:11,700 –> 00:43:18,370
really beyond imagination
848
00:43:14,830 –> 00:43:22,630
for that connection and that to me is
849
00:43:18,370 –> 00:43:26,160
like like you know the highest honor at
850
00:43:22,630 –> 00:43:30,070
the highest Ivy League college in right
851
00:43:26,160 –> 00:43:33,840
yeah the old world like I to me it’s
852
00:43:30,070 –> 00:43:37,840
like light-years beyond that that’s like
853
00:43:33,840 –> 00:43:44,920
amazing to me and the reward of that for
854
00:43:37,840 –> 00:43:49,330
me is so huge like I I really have this
855
00:43:44,920 –> 00:43:51,640
deep deep celebration reward with that
856
00:43:49,330 –> 00:43:53,530
that I think that a lot of people have
857
00:43:51,640 –> 00:43:55,780
difficulty understanding but if you’ve
858
00:43:53,530 –> 00:43:58,360
parented a child with attachment and
859
00:43:55,780 –> 00:44:01,930
trauma related stuff you really know
860
00:43:58,360 –> 00:44:06,340
that know what that’s worth right that’s
861
00:44:01,930 –> 00:44:10,369
a that is a that’s a big thing yeah I
862
00:44:06,340 –> 00:44:12,859
mean we’re all parenting under
863
00:44:10,369 –> 00:44:14,869
capitalism and in a society that is like
864
00:44:12,859 –> 00:44:17,239
racist and classist and a lot of things
865
00:44:14,869 –> 00:44:22,910
that get celebrated are racist and
866
00:44:17,239 –> 00:44:25,099
classist too you know yeah yeah so you
867
00:44:22,910 –> 00:44:28,130
get to do this radical thing when you
868
00:44:25,099 –> 00:44:30,109
celebrate these beautiful events that
869
00:44:28,130 –> 00:44:32,989
are just beautiful minutes
870
00:44:30,109 –> 00:44:36,229
I remember celebrating things like my
871
00:44:32,989 –> 00:44:39,920
daughter told the teacher that she had a
872
00:44:36,229 –> 00:44:42,589
problem with something so she got
873
00:44:39,920 –> 00:44:44,989
scolded and she got told just ignore it
874
00:44:42,589 –> 00:44:46,279
but in our house that was a celebration
875
00:44:44,989 –> 00:44:51,469
she asked for help
876
00:44:46,279 –> 00:44:54,549
yeah she even told wow he trusted an
877
00:44:51,469 –> 00:44:58,549
adult and trusting an adult it’s amazing
878
00:44:54,549 –> 00:45:02,410
right and so being able and open to
879
00:44:58,549 –> 00:45:05,569
recognizing those things I think is so
880
00:45:02,410 –> 00:45:10,279
important and so easily overlooked like
881
00:45:05,569 –> 00:45:14,229
you have to really be thinking to do
882
00:45:10,279 –> 00:45:18,019
that and to remember what a feat it is
883
00:45:14,229 –> 00:45:22,789
for our kids to trust an adult yeah I
884
00:45:18,019 –> 00:45:26,229
mean it really is like a superhero skill
885
00:45:22,789 –> 00:45:29,449
when they are able to do it right and
886
00:45:26,229 –> 00:45:34,359
and against all odds you’re able to do
887
00:45:29,449 –> 00:45:40,429
this super risky thing you’re amazing
888
00:45:34,359 –> 00:45:45,650
yeah not only did you consciously decide
889
00:45:40,429 –> 00:45:48,769
to do that and against every experience
890
00:45:45,650 –> 00:45:52,880
you’ve ever had but you biologically
891
00:45:48,769 –> 00:45:55,189
were able to override your own whole
892
00:45:52,880 –> 00:45:58,519
body fighting against you doing that
893
00:45:55,189 –> 00:46:01,640
whole thing right right the alarm was
894
00:45:58,519 –> 00:46:04,609
going off and you did it anyway right I
895
00:46:01,640 –> 00:46:06,289
mean those things are really huge and I
896
00:46:04,609 –> 00:46:08,569
think that one of the things I really
897
00:46:06,289 –> 00:46:11,469
encourage parents to do is to not lose
898
00:46:08,569 –> 00:46:14,420
sight of that and then even if they have
899
00:46:11,469 –> 00:46:16,729
done it a few times or they’ve gotten to
900
00:46:14,420 –> 00:46:21,170
do it a few times still years later it’s
901
00:46:16,729 –> 00:46:24,300
still hard for sure right it doesn’t get
902
00:46:21,170 –> 00:46:31,470
it doesn’t necessarily still understand
903
00:46:24,300 –> 00:46:37,640
all of us revert back to what we do
904
00:46:31,470 –> 00:46:48,510
right yeah so they do – yeah for sure so
905
00:46:37,640 –> 00:46:51,510
anyway I know we could so going back to
906
00:46:48,510 –> 00:46:53,880
the idea of unique gifts the unique
907
00:46:51,510 –> 00:46:56,940
gifts and insights that the kids that we
908
00:46:53,880 –> 00:46:59,510
work with have one of our mutual clients
909
00:46:56,940 –> 00:47:06,839
was talking recently he’s five years old
910
00:46:59,510 –> 00:47:09,089
he was talking to his parent about about
911
00:47:06,839 –> 00:47:13,859
why it was hard for him to say he’s
912
00:47:09,089 –> 00:47:15,180
sorry and he was say what he said
913
00:47:13,859 –> 00:47:19,619
something that I thought was just
914
00:47:15,180 –> 00:47:25,490
amazing he said to her when I’m sad and
915
00:47:19,619 –> 00:47:30,000
scared my volume button goes off when I
916
00:47:25,490 –> 00:47:32,010
mean the inside of that I mean can you
917
00:47:30,000 –> 00:47:34,530
speak a little bit to like what that
918
00:47:32,010 –> 00:47:38,099
must mean I mean he’s five years old
919
00:47:34,530 –> 00:47:39,599
yeah like I wish I had like 50 old
920
00:47:38,099 –> 00:47:42,059
clients who could have that awareness
921
00:47:39,599 –> 00:47:44,220
you know like this is what happens to me
922
00:47:42,059 –> 00:47:49,380
in that moment it’s phenomenally that
923
00:47:44,220 –> 00:47:51,000
deserves the parade because he was
924
00:47:49,380 –> 00:47:54,420
really getting what his adult was saying
925
00:47:51,000 –> 00:47:56,160
is you really want an apology and he’s
926
00:47:54,420 –> 00:47:58,700
really saying I am the kind of person
927
00:47:56,160 –> 00:48:01,829
who wants to be able to give an apology
928
00:47:58,700 –> 00:48:03,690
right and I’m noticing I can’t like
929
00:48:01,829 –> 00:48:05,369
that’s amazing he can say yes I am that
930
00:48:03,690 –> 00:48:08,130
person I’m a good person
931
00:48:05,369 –> 00:48:12,720
and I also see there’s something in the
932
00:48:08,130 –> 00:48:15,450
way yeah I mean sad and scared and my
933
00:48:12,720 –> 00:48:19,079
body just can’t make it happen like
934
00:48:15,450 –> 00:48:21,540
where it’s a camp not a won’t he say I
935
00:48:19,079 –> 00:48:26,520
can feel this can’t and I can describe
936
00:48:21,540 –> 00:48:32,760
it beautifully right exactly I mean that
937
00:48:26,520 –> 00:48:36,569
is like like just so incredible right
938
00:48:32,760 –> 00:48:37,530
and I know just to get another one like
939
00:48:36,569 –> 00:48:40,920
another thing
940
00:48:37,530 –> 00:48:44,280
like that I know that once my daughter
941
00:48:40,920 –> 00:48:47,190
and I well we were all our whole family
942
00:48:44,280 –> 00:48:52,470
was driving to do a we were actually
943
00:48:47,190 –> 00:48:55,770
driving to a bio family visit and my
944
00:48:52,470 –> 00:48:59,070
daughter was six years old and we were
945
00:48:55,770 –> 00:49:01,620
driving to see her birth parent and we
946
00:48:59,070 –> 00:49:04,410
had just watched Star Wars Jake because
947
00:49:01,620 –> 00:49:07,230
we’re big Star Wars people and Jay had
948
00:49:04,410 –> 00:49:10,500
just shown my daughter sharp Star Wars
949
00:49:07,230 –> 00:49:15,200
and she’s looking out of the window and
950
00:49:10,500 –> 00:49:15,200
just like in deep thought you know and
951
00:49:15,620 –> 00:49:22,620
her birth mom
952
00:49:17,790 –> 00:49:27,240
had a boyfriend who at that time so all
953
00:49:22,620 –> 00:49:32,520
of the all of the reasons for their
954
00:49:27,240 –> 00:49:35,160
removal were placed on him you know like
955
00:49:32,520 –> 00:49:38,360
that was he was for sure the focus from
956
00:49:35,160 –> 00:49:41,250
her perspective of why that happened and
957
00:49:38,360 –> 00:49:44,040
so anyway so she was staring out of the
958
00:49:41,250 –> 00:49:46,620
window just in deep thought and we had
959
00:49:44,040 –> 00:49:48,810
this like two hour car ride and I said
960
00:49:46,620 –> 00:49:52,320
what are you thinking about honey and
961
00:49:48,810 –> 00:49:55,800
she goes I was thinking about this
962
00:49:52,320 –> 00:49:58,530
person and and I’m like oh yeah really
963
00:49:55,800 –> 00:50:02,010
and she goes yeah I was thinking about
964
00:49:58,530 –> 00:50:08,280
how he’s a lot like Darth Vader and I
965
00:50:02,010 –> 00:50:10,680
say oh really how so and she goes you
966
00:50:08,280 –> 00:50:11,600
guys really bad things but there’s good
967
00:50:10,680 –> 00:50:15,360
in him
968
00:50:11,600 –> 00:50:21,990
whoa I know right
969
00:50:15,360 –> 00:50:24,510
she was six years old you know and she
970
00:50:21,990 –> 00:50:26,760
was on her way to visit you know and
971
00:50:24,510 –> 00:50:28,950
just in deep thought thinking about that
972
00:50:26,760 –> 00:50:34,980
movie and comparing it to her life and
973
00:50:28,950 –> 00:50:36,720
I’m thinking do six-year-olds dude here
974
00:50:34,980 –> 00:50:39,840
whatever movie they’re watching to their
975
00:50:36,720 –> 00:50:40,530
lights you know yeah I mean big kids
976
00:50:39,840 –> 00:50:42,330
gets old
977
00:50:40,530 –> 00:50:45,530
that’s why kids get so much out of art
978
00:50:42,330 –> 00:50:49,950
and books and movies and stories and I
979
00:50:45,530 –> 00:50:51,990
mean I don’t describe it right
980
00:50:49,950 –> 00:50:55,049
well I mean I always knew that they just
981
00:50:51,990 –> 00:50:58,859
they thought of themselves as the hero
982
00:50:55,049 –> 00:51:04,589
you know yeah but I didn’t know how like
983
00:50:58,859 –> 00:51:06,869
the entire cast could right so it was
984
00:51:04,589 –> 00:51:08,970
pretty it was pretty amazing and there’s
985
00:51:06,869 –> 00:51:15,299
I mean there are so many things like
986
00:51:08,970 –> 00:51:26,760
that that so many kids had said you know
987
00:51:15,299 –> 00:51:28,410
and then so many funny funny things yeah
988
00:51:26,760 –> 00:51:32,690
that’s true at the end
989
00:51:28,410 –> 00:51:37,369
The Wizard of Oz yeah that’s true but
990
00:51:32,690 –> 00:51:45,390
yeah I I love that and then and then to
991
00:51:37,369 –> 00:51:48,540
I think how kids some kids that we’ve
992
00:51:45,390 –> 00:51:51,990
worked with in particular one comes to
993
00:51:48,540 –> 00:51:56,030
mind in particular who is so knowing
994
00:51:51,990 –> 00:52:00,180
about what he needs like absolutely
995
00:51:56,030 –> 00:52:03,990
knows what he needs all that has to
996
00:52:00,180 –> 00:52:04,829
happen really are the adults need to
997
00:52:03,990 –> 00:52:08,520
just listen
998
00:52:04,829 –> 00:52:10,740
yeah like if the adults will listen he
999
00:52:08,520 –> 00:52:15,329
will tell you exactly what he needs
1000
00:52:10,740 –> 00:52:17,910
no okay in the world and all of it is
1001
00:52:15,329 –> 00:52:21,450
usually a hundred percent reasonable
1002
00:52:17,910 –> 00:52:22,770
yeah right no if it’s not doable and
1003
00:52:21,450 –> 00:52:26,280
even if it’s not doable and you explain
1004
00:52:22,770 –> 00:52:28,880
your right that’s reasonable and it’s
1005
00:52:26,280 –> 00:52:31,880
not doable he can even shift which is
1006
00:52:28,880 –> 00:52:31,880
mind-blowing
1007
00:52:32,420 –> 00:52:39,240
it is really phenomenal and then one
1008
00:52:36,569 –> 00:52:44,010
child also recently during all of this
1009
00:52:39,240 –> 00:52:48,930
Kovac stuff who is in a group home
1010
00:52:44,010 –> 00:52:52,710
setting he’s in total isolation right
1011
00:52:48,930 –> 00:52:56,780
now unfortunately and that isn’t and and
1012
00:52:52,710 –> 00:52:59,970
the reason is because the staff capacity
1013
00:52:56,780 –> 00:53:01,869
doesn’t allow for the level of
1014
00:52:59,970 –> 00:53:05,019
restriction that the kids need
1015
00:53:01,869 –> 00:53:08,499
the number of staff in this Kovach
1016
00:53:05,019 –> 00:53:11,109
situation are requiring that he is alone
1017
00:53:08,499 –> 00:53:15,069
in his room pretty much doing video
1018
00:53:11,109 –> 00:53:18,430
games most of the time you know
1019
00:53:15,069 –> 00:53:20,529
well like 90% of the time I mean like
1020
00:53:18,430 –> 00:53:22,599
that’s pretty much what he’s doing he’s
1021
00:53:20,529 –> 00:53:25,479
not getting physical exercise and he’s
1022
00:53:22,599 –> 00:53:27,279
not getting to do even online school so
1023
00:53:25,479 –> 00:53:31,630
he’s not getting really any interaction
1024
00:53:27,279 –> 00:53:35,499
with anybody else and his caregiver that
1025
00:53:31,630 –> 00:53:40,569
he knew from before a really important
1026
00:53:35,499 –> 00:53:42,039
person in his life asked him what what
1027
00:53:40,569 –> 00:53:44,829
is the first thing you’re gonna do when
1028
00:53:42,039 –> 00:53:51,329
quarantine is over and he said I’m gonna
1029
00:53:44,829 –> 00:53:58,210
get a hug and he is a 14 year old right
1030
00:53:51,329 –> 00:54:00,039
tough boy right well who it’s like that
1031
00:53:58,210 –> 00:54:03,430
level of insight I mean I don’t think
1032
00:54:00,039 –> 00:54:06,519
that he’s like I never am I know what I
1033
00:54:03,430 –> 00:54:08,200
need and this is it yeah this is it’s
1034
00:54:06,519 –> 00:54:13,839
it’s not okay that I’ve gone this long
1035
00:54:08,200 –> 00:54:19,299
without a hug thank you right it’s just
1036
00:54:13,839 –> 00:54:21,700
it’s amazing how um I think hopeful yeah
1037
00:54:19,299 –> 00:54:28,390
how much they know about themselves with
1038
00:54:21,700 –> 00:54:32,109
people who listen right right yeah yeah
1039
00:54:28,390 –> 00:54:33,989
so you Mary are doing a group around one
1040
00:54:32,109 –> 00:54:37,539
of my very favorite parenting groups
1041
00:54:33,989 –> 00:54:40,180
no drama discipline do you want to tell
1042
00:54:37,539 –> 00:54:46,089
us a little bit about that group yeah
1043
00:54:40,180 –> 00:54:47,979
we’re doing a parenting group and using
1044
00:54:46,089 –> 00:54:51,339
the no drama discipline workbook which
1045
00:54:47,979 –> 00:54:53,440
is working on like you’re looking at
1046
00:54:51,339 –> 00:54:56,069
your triggers as a parent you’re looking
1047
00:54:53,440 –> 00:54:58,900
on what’s I can’t and was it won’t
1048
00:54:56,069 –> 00:55:03,190
you’re really focusing on a tuning to
1049
00:54:58,900 –> 00:55:05,140
brain states and its really the group
1050
00:55:03,190 –> 00:55:08,140
really gives parents a chance to be as
1051
00:55:05,140 –> 00:55:10,299
human as humanly possible and really
1052
00:55:08,140 –> 00:55:11,259
work examples so like this occurred and
1053
00:55:10,299 –> 00:55:13,410
then if we’re applying these skills
1054
00:55:11,259 –> 00:55:15,760
exactly what it looks like
1055
00:55:13,410 –> 00:55:18,870
and the parents do a really beautiful
1056
00:55:15,760 –> 00:55:21,580
job of taking care of each other and
1057
00:55:18,870 –> 00:55:24,400
they’re noticing like I tried this tool
1058
00:55:21,580 –> 00:55:25,690
and this part worked in this part didn’t
1059
00:55:24,400 –> 00:55:28,240
and people are just like cheering them
1060
00:55:25,690 –> 00:55:30,160
on so they get that reparative
1061
00:55:28,240 –> 00:55:32,920
experience of I mean you’re not exactly
1062
00:55:30,160 –> 00:55:34,720
parenting in front of people but like
1063
00:55:32,920 –> 00:55:36,520
you get to make a parenting mistake in
1064
00:55:34,720 –> 00:55:41,020
public and people just think you’re
1065
00:55:36,520 –> 00:55:43,480
phenomenal I love that and I love no
1066
00:55:41,020 –> 00:55:45,460
drama discipline I feel like it’s one of
1067
00:55:43,480 –> 00:55:48,520
the few things out there that really
1068
00:55:45,460 –> 00:55:53,740
does effectively work really well for
1069
00:55:48,520 –> 00:55:56,380
kids that do not have necessarily a lot
1070
00:55:53,740 –> 00:55:59,140
of adverse experiences behind them and
1071
00:55:56,380 –> 00:56:02,800
for kids who do have a lot of adverse
1072
00:55:59,140 –> 00:56:05,380
experiences and I feel like that is a
1073
00:56:02,800 –> 00:56:08,830
really rare thing because there’s often
1074
00:56:05,380 –> 00:56:11,560
it’s because it’s brain state based and
1075
00:56:08,830 –> 00:56:14,200
and encouragement based that’s the other
1076
00:56:11,560 –> 00:56:17,320
thing I love about it and it’s you know
1077
00:56:14,200 –> 00:56:21,760
really works on cultivating the yes
1078
00:56:17,320 –> 00:56:24,490
brain and having a receptive brain and I
1079
00:56:21,760 –> 00:56:26,950
I think that that’s so that’s another
1080
00:56:24,490 –> 00:56:30,340
huge important thing that know for sure
1081
00:56:26,950 –> 00:56:35,640
so I feel like I could talk to you
1082
00:56:30,340 –> 00:56:39,040
forever I know um thank you so much Mary
1083
00:56:35,640 –> 00:56:42,690
okay artis Ben okay I’ll talk to you
1084
00:56:39,040 –> 00:56:42,690
later bye
Extraordinary Parenting for out-of-the-box kids Video Podcast
Episode 3 with Mary Russell, LMHC with The Suquamish Tribe, Suquamish Washington
