Understanding Regulation and Implementing it at Home, with Jane Samuel

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so excited to have James Samuel here

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today Jane and I go back quite a ways

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now we met through the attachment trauma

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Network and I think 2013 is when we met

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somewhere around there yeah maybe maybe

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even a little earlier because it was

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what every year that you were doing the

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movie tour yes it was it was it was

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probably 2012

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probably 2012 and that’s right and we we

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ended up doing a screening in in

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Louisville that was really great and and

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that’s when we got to spend a lot of

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time together but I don’t think that’s

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when I first met you is it no oh no no

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no no no we met before that yes so I

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have come to admire as a parent you have

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been an absolute mentor to me actually

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over the years your knowledge and

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understanding of regulation and ot and

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the power of of in that area the power

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that those kinda knowledge of those

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things can have was really eye-opening

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for me early in my parenting

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transformation actually and so that’s

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why I really thought you were the

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perfect person to talk with me on this

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topic of integrating regulation into

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your daily life because you have

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definitely lived that I also thought

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maybe you could introduce yourself and

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talk about how your parenting journey

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has led to what you do now

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professionally mm-hmm

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so as you pointed out we’ve known each

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other a long time and before we even

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knew each other

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of course you were forming your family

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and I was forming mine and one of our

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children is adopted and has a history of

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very early trauma and in my learning

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process which was largely informed by

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the fact that I just love to read I’m I

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guess being a former lawyer I’m a huge

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researcher and so I just I just knew I

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needed to know

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more soy just attacked things and then I

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also encountered other parents Julie

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beam who runs the task from trauma

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Network and you and some other parents

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not actually involved in a TN but

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involved in other support groups that

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were very helpful in in in my journey

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and understanding why my child was

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acting the way she was what she was

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trying to tell me with her behaviors how

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I did best help her and we were very

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lucky although it was very hard we were

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very lucky to live in Asia when my

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daughter was in her toddler preschool

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years we had moved there for my

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husband’s job and her occupational

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therapists we could not find an

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attachment or trauma therapist there but

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we found a very very well trained

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occupational therapist who had a

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background in understanding attachment

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the effect of trauma and development she

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had a lot of background in Stanley

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Greenspan’s model for time and she and

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some trainers that were brought in by

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the adoption support system in Singapore

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helped me to understand the intersection

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of what might at the time have been seen

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as his heavy sensory issues and and what

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my child was experiencing internally

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almost like from felt self and her

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development of herself which was was

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developed differently than than other

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children who hadn’t had a history of

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trauma so we learned a lot along that

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path and then to kind of fast forward I

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got very involved in attachment trauma

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Network I helped with their start there

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I started their parent Journal and

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therapeutic parenting journal and some

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other things going conferences and I

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just found that even as my child grew

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and and healed really and our family

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really formed a strong attachment I

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still loved this work and I still loved

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the the research and the idea of

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supporting families and so then I ended

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up deciding to go ahead and get a whole

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nother career and so I went back to

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graduate school and I studied

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specifically family science and I

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graduated and my focus was in marriage

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and family therapy and through that I

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developed an even more specialized

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interest in in therapy which is a model

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of filial play therapy model family play

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therapy model that’s really great for

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supporting both the child and the

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parents or the caregivers I really feel

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strongly that what we’re doing here is

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as a family as we’re working to develop

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that attachment healed

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perhaps wounds and maybe even our own

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and and then move forward in our life

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journey from a systemic point of view

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and and so now I’m out practicing

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working with individuals and families

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some with children with the history of

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trauma and attachment issues and in that

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work I I practice as a life a marriage

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and Family Therapy associate working

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toward my full licensure here in my

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state so so amazing and I think one of

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the things that I know that you and I

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share a passion for is really helping

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parents understand and make the paradigm

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shifts towards really understanding

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their children’s behavior and why our

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kids are behave the way that they behave

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and and and I think that that’s

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something that for me understanding

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regulation and the ability to

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self-regulate or not understanding Co

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regulation was an absolute

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like I feel like I found the magic key

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when I owe ya ya big day I can I can

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remember where I was sitting really I

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had that paradigm shift I was sitting in

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my we lived in a very very tall skinny

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that’s kind of the way they’re built

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their house in Asia couldn’t couldn’t do

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an apartment with a balcony because we

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had a child who had no sense of danger

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so we were living in this very tall

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skinny house and I was up in my

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third-floor bedroom and I was alone and

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I was really feeling quite desperate and

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I was reading or had just recently read

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either my two favorite books from that

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time period were either Danny used his

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book building the bonds of attachment or

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is that the name of his book I’m trying

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to remember but anyway or I was reading

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Keck and Kuh Peggy’s book on parenting

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the her child and both those books kind

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of culminated in this aha moment that

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day with the Sun coming and because it’s

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always either pouring there or sunny and

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this realization of oh my gosh my child

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is not doing this to drive me nuts she’s

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doing this because her system is on fire

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and oh gosh what flooded through me was

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both a an empathy a sadness that I

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hadn’t gotten it up to that point and

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she’d been with us for about three and a

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half four years or no sorry she’d been

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with us about two and a half years at

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that point and you know I had been

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loving on her but I had also because of

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my own personal stuff that I needed to

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work on which was the other aha tell you

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about in a minute realized oh um I need

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to give her a lot of grace because she’s

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pushing my buttons but she doesn’t

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intend to do that and oh by the way I

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have to give myself grace because guess

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what I got all these buttons all over

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the front of me that are getting pushed

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because I have my own stuff and so the

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second aha was oh I really need to work

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on some of my own stuff as well so it in

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in the end it ended up being a jewel

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healing you know process but absolutely

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the same for me I know that I I think I

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have shared with you before um for us

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for me to specific moments like that one

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was when we had gotten well my daughter

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used to run her hands along the wall and

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when she walked in I was we tried

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everything we could think of to correct

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that behavior out of her and we were

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absolutely convinced that it was a

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willful behavior that she was doing it

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absolutely to drive me out I was certain

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it was just something she was doing

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specifically to push my buttons and then

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we got the results of the neuro

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sequential trauma assessment and saw

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that she had proprioceptive deficits and

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that moment was like oh my gosh she’s

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not trying to make me mad she’s just

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trying to stay standing upright and he’s

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also not only is she just trying to stay

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standing upright but her brain is

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prioritizing the need to stand upright

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before she can even consider whether I

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want her to do this or not

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her brain even can even get to the part

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of thinking that yes I love the way

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you’re pointing at that hybrid like like

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you know oh we until you also give

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ourselves grace that oh my high brain is

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not working I think that’s why I loved

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in dance equals little model of the

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brain it’s like Oh flipped my lid so I’m

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not gonna be able to access any of that

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which is I guess we’re regulation comes

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in is when we calm and regularly then oh

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hello here comes some cognition if you

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know that’s developmentally appropriate

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here comes some calming

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maybe rationalization but yeah and then

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and that in that the second they

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my son who had really big reactions

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really big like I’ve always said I had

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one child whose behaviors were more

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covert and one more over Jonah had very

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big reactions and he wants was

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frightened he was frightened but in my

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mind he was angry you know he looked

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angry to me I didn’t know yet I didn’t

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understand dysregulation and I didn’t

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understand the trauma trigger mm-hmm and

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he and I had tried to stop him from

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hurting somebody else

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his sister actually I tried to stop him

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and in doing so in grabbing on to him to

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stop him

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he bit me and then bit me hard and and I

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remember in that moment it was right

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after reading fan Siegel’s book I was i

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I was just hit with this moment of this

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is terror he he’s in terror

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mm-hmm and if I can soothe him then

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he’ll let go

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and he did and it was the first time I

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actually tried soothing him in a moment

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like that instead of correcting him in a

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moment directing and controlling yeah

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yeah so those two moments for me were

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those oh there’s a there’s a magic key

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here that I have to pay attention to

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mm-hmm you know and then that’s when we

0:12:49.860,0:12:56.769
started to become very very intentional

0:12:53.290,0:13:01.720
about implementing regulation not only

0:12:56.769,0:13:04.750
as a response to behavior but into every

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single day can you talk a little bit

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about how you did that in your home and

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how I’m doing it now for myself during

0:13:11.889,0:13:16.089
the pandemic because you know you’re

0:13:14.050,0:13:18.970
talking about regulation but I think a

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way of just simplifying it and

0:13:18.970,0:13:23.400
distilling all the way down is

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oh you’re seeing all these resources for

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the pandemic for for adults what are

0:13:26.280,0:13:30.810
some of the ones that you’re seeing

0:13:27.720,0:13:33.570
well don’t watch the news okay why

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because we get dysregulated watching the

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news we get go into terror go and walk

0:13:37.680,0:13:44.700
in nature why because science proof has

0:13:42.270,0:13:48.930
proven through studies walking in nature

0:13:44.700,0:13:52.830
is very regulating okay everything from

0:13:48.930,0:13:55.350
putting our feet on the floor to looking

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around and being mindful drawn out of

0:13:55.350,0:14:00.330
our worries okay so regulation isn’t

0:13:58.320,0:14:03.090
just about children it’s about all of us

0:14:00.330,0:14:09.540
and tuning into what do we what do we

0:14:03.090,0:14:12.450
need so to back up for a second what I

0:14:09.540,0:14:15.150
did back then one of the big things was

0:14:12.450,0:14:18.900
I kind of came at it from the

0:14:15.150,0:14:21.750
occupational room and learned through

0:14:18.900,0:14:25.680
our occupational therapists that our

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daughter really needed a sensory play

0:14:25.680,0:14:31.130
every day now you know I had two other

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children I’m playing I know what play is

0:14:31.130,0:14:38.640
but I didn’t know what sensory play was

0:14:36.660,0:14:40.770
I didn’t know that when my children were

0:14:38.640,0:14:42.540
doing this they were putting in this

0:14:40.770,0:14:44.850
information in their body when they were

0:14:42.540,0:14:47.640
swinging at the park when they were

0:14:44.850,0:14:49.560
jumping on a pogo stick it was putting

0:14:47.640,0:14:51.870
this information and that their body

0:14:49.560,0:14:55.050
liked it or didn’t like it because every

0:14:51.870,0:14:58.230
child is different and I remember that

0:14:55.050,0:15:02.910
which I think is is hard at first to

0:14:58.230,0:15:05.070
hear but is helpful and free um it

0:15:02.910,0:15:07.200
helpful because it’s free what I’m about

0:15:05.070,0:15:09.630
to say and that is I remember asking my

0:15:07.200,0:15:11.760
occupational therapists what do I do

0:15:09.630,0:15:14.040
like like what do I do every day when

0:15:11.760,0:15:15.630
she said coming here once one day a week

0:15:14.040,0:15:18.180
is not going to be enough because she

0:15:15.630,0:15:20.340
had us unlike some occupational

0:15:18.180,0:15:23.040
therapists she actually had us working

0:15:20.340,0:15:25.590
together in the room so we were in there

0:15:23.040,0:15:27.570
playing together at first she said she

0:15:25.590,0:15:30.540
won’t want she won’t want to involve you

0:15:27.570,0:15:32.490
and that was because of her fear and her

0:15:30.540,0:15:34.440
control and everything but but she got

0:15:32.490,0:15:36.270
me involved somehow she’d say

0:15:34.440,0:15:39.000
little things like maybe mom has an idea

0:15:36.270,0:15:43.500
of how to hang up that um panic or

0:15:39.000,0:15:46.050
whatever but um she said observe of what

0:15:43.500,0:15:49.200
I’m doing here but also just go home and

0:15:46.050,0:15:51.510
play and I said okay but how much do I

0:15:49.200,0:15:53.490
do like like do I do 10 minutes of

0:15:51.510,0:15:56.580
swinging and do we do big swinging or do

0:15:53.490,0:15:59.850
we small and she said just observe

0:15:56.580,0:16:03.780
she said just observe and see does she

0:15:59.850,0:16:06.060
get more wild or did she get calmer and

0:16:03.780,0:16:08.790
I remember thinking great that’s no help

0:16:06.060,0:16:11.670
that’s like like like I just want you to

0:16:08.790,0:16:13.530
hand me the answer right but what she

0:16:11.670,0:16:15.780
was teaching me even though she didn’t

0:16:13.530,0:16:18.990
teach me the word then she was teaching

0:16:15.780,0:16:21.630
the attunement and she was teaching me

0:16:18.990,0:16:26.430
that by being aware of what my child was

0:16:21.630,0:16:29.010
doing I could start to attune to what

0:16:26.430,0:16:36.090
was going on just with my own eyes and

0:16:29.010,0:16:38.670
ears and then being a detective so a

0:16:36.090,0:16:40.890
tuning is both observing and taking in

0:16:38.670,0:16:43.470
information and then being a detective

0:16:40.890,0:16:45.780
of okay what’s going on here is this

0:16:43.470,0:16:48.540
going up is this going down or if we had

0:16:45.780,0:16:51.320
a come apart as we sometimes call it a

0:16:48.540,0:16:56.250
tantrum what happened right before this

0:16:51.320,0:16:58.890
so you became very good at looking Oh we

0:16:56.250,0:17:00.630
turned off the television and I knew

0:16:58.890,0:17:05.390
from our developmentalist who we worked

0:17:00.630,0:17:08.220
with Dana Kay Bonham in California that

0:17:05.390,0:17:10.050
that turning off the television or any

0:17:08.220,0:17:13.890
digital device was the breaking of a

0:17:10.050,0:17:15.750
trance and so that was dis regulating in

0:17:13.890,0:17:18.990
itself but then maybe what we were

0:17:15.750,0:17:21.030
watching was dis regulating so a movie

0:17:18.990,0:17:24.810
lady in the Tramp had a mom who was

0:17:21.030,0:17:26.790
pregnant and has a baby and kind of you

0:17:24.810,0:17:29.190
know the doggy the puppy who she loves

0:17:26.790,0:17:31.890
kind of gets pushed to the side okay

0:17:29.190,0:17:34.440
that could be very dysregulated and and

0:17:31.890,0:17:38.490
triggering for a child who has a history

0:17:34.440,0:17:40.380
like some of our children so I had to do

0:17:38.490,0:17:42.510
both those things and that to me was all

0:17:40.380,0:17:45.330
part of a tune Minh and I do that now

0:17:42.510,0:17:48.330
with myself and I train my clients to do

0:17:45.330,0:17:51.630
that a tune be aware what’s up

0:17:48.330,0:17:54.210
you what’s not upsetting you so I didn’t

0:17:51.630,0:17:57.840
have a script I love the fact that you

0:17:54.210,0:17:59.399
help us with this survive and thrive

0:17:57.840,0:18:02.100
guide because you kind of have little

0:17:59.399,0:18:04.500
places we can fill in with the

0:18:02.100,0:18:07.740
information we gain from our observation

0:18:04.500,0:18:11.519
but it is a matter of slowing things

0:18:07.740,0:18:13.890
down watching your child looking at the

0:18:11.519,0:18:16.799
behavior looking at what happened right

0:18:13.890,0:18:19.799
before if you’re engaged in sensory play

0:18:16.799,0:18:21.870
of any nature you know riding a bike

0:18:19.799,0:18:25.080
swimming going to the park going down

0:18:21.870,0:18:27.149
the slide um doing tug-of-war doing a

0:18:25.080,0:18:30.120
whole bunch of great games you can do is

0:18:27.149,0:18:33.950
my child going up is my child going down

0:18:30.120,0:18:36.419
are they crashing okay um so I learned

0:18:33.950,0:18:39.000
both by people telling me to keep my

0:18:36.419,0:18:40.590
child’s life small but I also learn no

0:18:39.000,0:18:43.320
big birthday parties

0:18:40.590,0:18:44.700
no bouncy castles and all that which you

0:18:43.320,0:18:47.370
would think oh that’s great sensory

0:18:44.700,0:18:48.690
input no a lot of those places that had

0:18:47.370,0:18:50.850
that which of course are closed now

0:18:48.690,0:18:53.070
during a pandemic um they had bright

0:18:50.850,0:18:55.110
flashing lights they had too much

0:18:53.070,0:18:59.429
activity too many children too much

0:18:55.110,0:19:02.690
sound so so that that’s the way I kind

0:18:59.429,0:19:06.299
of crafted our day then we began

0:19:02.690,0:19:08.820
neurological reorganization and that did

0:19:06.299,0:19:11.100
give me more kind of like you’ve done

0:19:08.820,0:19:15.690
here in a simplified form and survive

0:19:11.100,0:19:18.809
and thrive a cheat sheet to use another

0:19:15.690,0:19:22.440
cheat sheet was I used this book yes a

0:19:18.809,0:19:24.120
single child has fun and and all of

0:19:22.440,0:19:26.870
those things I started to piece together

0:19:24.120,0:19:28.830
what our day would look like and

0:19:26.870,0:19:30.750
obviously there were other things we had

0:19:28.830,0:19:32.820
to get done if we were in school we had

0:19:30.750,0:19:35.279
to get school done but then as soon as

0:19:32.820,0:19:37.889
we got home from school we allowed time

0:19:35.279,0:19:39.990
for what some people might have looked

0:19:37.889,0:19:41.909
at his home occupational therapy but I

0:19:39.990,0:19:44.789
was really looking at it is time for

0:19:41.909,0:19:47.909
relational play that included sensory

0:19:44.789,0:19:50.940
and we did the same thing too and when

0:19:47.909,0:19:54.809
we built the survive and thrive packet

0:19:50.940,0:19:57.539
what we tried to do was leave in space

0:19:54.809,0:20:00.630
for a two minute because you do you

0:19:57.539,0:20:01.600
there’s no substitute for that there

0:20:00.630,0:20:04.330
isn’t

0:20:01.600,0:20:05.770
there isn’t a formula like you said you

0:20:04.330,0:20:09.039
were wishing she would hand you the

0:20:05.770,0:20:11.559
formula and now you and I both know how

0:20:09.039,0:20:13.990
even as bad as we both wanted that

0:20:11.559,0:20:16.000
because I wanted that too there is no

0:20:13.990,0:20:18.130
substitute for that and once you learn

0:20:16.000,0:20:19.900
to attune it’s so much more effective

0:20:18.130,0:20:24.309
anyway right

0:20:19.900,0:20:26.559
being able to attune and and read your

0:20:24.309,0:20:30.030
child and go with them where they’re

0:20:26.559,0:20:33.669
going it’s so much more effective and

0:20:30.030,0:20:38.230
creates harmony in such a more beautiful

0:20:33.669,0:20:41.710
way in your household and when we built

0:20:38.230,0:20:44.710
the packet what we tried to do was break

0:20:41.710,0:20:49.980
it up into blocks to allow for that you

0:20:44.710,0:20:53.200
know the other thing I wanted to say is

0:20:49.980,0:20:57.010
you mentioned the out of sync child we

0:20:53.200,0:21:00.450
did that too we that was one of the

0:20:57.010,0:21:04.659
resources that was a huge go-to for us I

0:21:00.450,0:21:07.390
highly recommend that and I also highly

0:21:04.659,0:21:11.350
because I love therapy I also now highly

0:21:07.390,0:21:12.909
recommend the book parenting with Sarah

0:21:11.350,0:21:15.460
play or whatever the title is but it’s

0:21:12.909,0:21:17.740
the book specifically for parents yes

0:21:15.460,0:21:19.570
because I know that you know the Thera

0:21:17.740,0:21:22.179
plain stupids been around a long time

0:21:19.570,0:21:25.600
and has heavily researched their model

0:21:22.179,0:21:28.960
it is evidence-based and they’ve looked

0:21:25.600,0:21:32.230
into what supports children what games

0:21:28.960,0:21:33.640
what songs what activities and they’re

0:21:32.230,0:21:37.780
all things that you and I would

0:21:33.640,0:21:41.049
recognize from being a child but they’re

0:21:37.780,0:21:42.970
there they’re grouped just kind of like

0:21:41.049,0:21:45.340
they are in this book you know where

0:21:42.970,0:21:47.140
okay you’re working maybe on this or

0:21:45.340,0:21:50.230
you’re doing this now you know so you’re

0:21:47.140,0:21:54.820
feeding your child’s regulatory system

0:21:50.230,0:21:56.740
on and and I personally think and I know

0:21:54.820,0:21:59.140
this is so hard especially during a

0:21:56.740,0:22:00.970
pandemic because we’re all stricken

0:21:59.140,0:22:02.740
though we have all this extra seemingly

0:22:00.970,0:22:05.559
extra time on our hands because we’re

0:22:02.740,0:22:07.000
staying home we’re stretched farther

0:22:05.559,0:22:09.130
than we ever could have been

0:22:07.000,0:22:13.179
because we’re trying to work full-time

0:22:09.130,0:22:14.950
or part-time and have our children home

0:22:13.179,0:22:17.590
or even if we don’t work out

0:22:14.950,0:22:21.030
side the home our our work at home

0:22:17.590,0:22:23.710
raising our children has become why

0:22:21.030,0:22:25.300
exponentially tougher you know because

0:22:23.710,0:22:27.820
maybe they’re not going to school or

0:22:25.300,0:22:30.100
maybe because we can’t go we can’t just

0:22:27.820,0:22:31.900
go quickly run an errand so for whatever

0:22:30.100,0:22:35.560
reason things have become a lot tougher

0:22:31.900,0:22:38.980
so I understand that a quick fix is all

0:22:35.560,0:22:42.370
I’m always great we always were looking

0:22:38.980,0:22:44.350
for the magic bullet the magic pill over

0:22:42.370,0:22:46.260
the years I know I was when I would

0:22:44.350,0:22:50.680
research all different kinds of therapy

0:22:46.260,0:22:53.620
but if you can hang with this idea of

0:22:50.680,0:22:56.800
the survive and thrive if you can hang

0:22:53.620,0:22:59.490
with with this idea of building a

0:22:56.800,0:23:04.080
relationship with your child through

0:22:59.490,0:23:08.890
regulating play you are going to

0:23:04.080,0:23:10.980
actually win so much more because you

0:23:08.890,0:23:14.380
are going to be handing them number one

0:23:10.980,0:23:16.270
something they need for life number two

0:23:14.380,0:23:19.030
you’re not going to be slapping a

0:23:16.270,0:23:21.700
band-aid on a problem that’s still going

0:23:19.030,0:23:24.010
to be hiding under the band-aid what I

0:23:21.700,0:23:27.220
noticed personally with my child as I

0:23:24.010,0:23:31.390
integrated the sensory play everyday and

0:23:27.220,0:23:35.500
the relational play everyday I noticed a

0:23:31.390,0:23:38.110
huge healing and we suddenly not

0:23:35.500,0:23:40.960
overnight but we suddenly went from a

0:23:38.110,0:23:44.440
couple years where we could not sleep at

0:23:40.960,0:23:47.080
night we could not sit still we could

0:23:44.440,0:23:49.330
not do things that required certain

0:23:47.080,0:23:52.270
developmental tasks that she didn’t have

0:23:49.330,0:23:53.890
that I didn’t know so like uh arts and

0:23:52.270,0:23:55.750
crafts she never could do that she’d

0:23:53.890,0:23:57.850
fall on the floor in a tantrum and and

0:23:55.750,0:23:58.840
and I couldn’t figure that out then I

0:23:57.850,0:24:01.380
realized that that was very

0:23:58.840,0:24:01.380
disrespectful

0:24:27.710,0:24:35.539
even though it was a lot of work and I

0:24:31.120,0:24:37.429
yes absolutely and I think too I look

0:24:35.539,0:24:39.679
back at some of the really creative

0:24:37.429,0:24:41.450
things that we figured out along the way

0:24:39.679,0:24:44.480
like one of the things I figured out

0:24:41.450,0:24:47.600
with my kids is when I picked them up

0:24:44.480,0:24:50.390
from school both of them responded

0:24:47.600,0:24:54.020
totally differently getting picked up

0:24:50.390,0:24:57.110
from school so for my son I first of all

0:24:54.020,0:24:58.700
I had to re-engineer how I picked them

0:24:57.110,0:25:00.679
up from school because actually my

0:24:58.700,0:25:02.950
daughter got out of school first and my

0:25:00.679,0:25:07.730
son got out second but that absolutely

0:25:02.950,0:25:10.190
could not work for us so I modified his

0:25:07.730,0:25:13.429
schedule so I picked him up first

0:25:10.190,0:25:17.240
so I could pick him up get him settled

0:25:13.429,0:25:20.450
with headphones and something to do so

0:25:17.240,0:25:22.640
and a snack and get him kind of calm and

0:25:20.450,0:25:25.279
doing his own thing because he really

0:25:22.640,0:25:27.740
needed to kind of go away for a bit

0:25:25.279,0:25:29.720
after all of that stimulation like

0:25:27.740,0:25:32.000
that’s what he needed and then I could

0:25:29.720,0:25:34.100
pick up my daughter and what we would do

0:25:32.000,0:25:38.000
every day when I picked my daughter is

0:25:34.100,0:25:41.539
we would set the timer for two minutes

0:25:38.000,0:25:43.970
and I would say okay tell me everything

0:25:41.539,0:25:47.360
awful that happened while you were away

0:25:43.970,0:25:50.480
from me for two minutes and then we’ll

0:25:47.360,0:25:53.270
switch to what happened great you know

0:25:50.480,0:25:55.039
so it was two minutes of what was awful

0:25:53.270,0:25:58.789
about the day because she really needed

0:25:55.039,0:26:01.220
to connect with me and tell me I was

0:25:58.789,0:26:04.909
away from you and it was awful and

0:26:01.220,0:26:07.909
here’s why it was awful and then she

0:26:04.909,0:26:09.350
could reset and come back by telling me

0:26:07.909,0:26:11.360
the great parts of the day we could

0:26:09.350,0:26:13.700
shift into that once I was able to hear

0:26:11.360,0:26:17.090
her and receive that from her and

0:26:13.700,0:26:19.940
acknowledge that she could shift but I

0:26:17.090,0:26:23.929
think back about that and I think that

0:26:19.940,0:26:26.210
was a really great like example of that

0:26:23.929,0:26:31.159
a tuning to what they both needed and

0:26:26.210,0:26:33.380
then adjusting life so we could do well

0:26:31.159,0:26:35.480
and I love that example too because you

0:26:33.380,0:26:39.919
can see that regulation doesn’t always

0:26:35.480,0:26:41.180
require sensory play the way we look at

0:26:39.919,0:26:43.250
it you know so didn’t

0:26:41.180,0:26:44.630
choir for you taking a trip to the

0:26:43.250,0:26:47.600
playground with your daughter maybe

0:26:44.630,0:26:51.080
right away what it did require was your

0:26:47.600,0:26:54.350
full attention and it required that your

0:26:51.080,0:26:56.620
other child not be to the best you could

0:26:54.350,0:26:58.820
do it obviously nothing’s ever perfect

0:26:56.620,0:27:01.490
that you could devote those two minutes

0:26:58.820,0:27:05.540
to her but for Jonah what was required

0:27:01.490,0:27:08.120
was perhaps some sensory input so the

0:27:05.540,0:27:11.450
headphones giving him some place

0:27:08.120,0:27:16.040
something to do with his hands so you

0:27:11.450,0:27:18.230
know regulation for me is is it just go

0:27:16.040,0:27:20.720
to the park or do jumping jacks it’s

0:27:18.230,0:27:22.580
it’s it gets back to that attunement

0:27:20.720,0:27:25.910
they they go right together like this

0:27:22.580,0:27:28.490
what does this child need right now so I

0:27:25.910,0:27:30.830
think for example of my daughter she

0:27:28.490,0:27:34.550
would have trouble going into things

0:27:30.830,0:27:36.590
sometimes Bob coming to the dinner table

0:27:34.550,0:27:40.270
coming to anything that was required

0:27:36.590,0:27:44.330
going to require her to sit and attend

0:27:40.270,0:27:45.200
yes because her system was on still

0:27:44.330,0:27:49.580
traveling

0:27:45.200,0:27:52.550
hi so what I learned was scooped up

0:27:49.580,0:27:56.840
underneath the arms from behind and then

0:27:52.550,0:27:58.640
we would do stops in I would lift her

0:27:56.840,0:28:00.680
and we would hit the ground with her

0:27:58.640,0:28:02.750
feet and lift and hit the ground with

0:28:00.680,0:28:06.530
our feet and that was giving her she

0:28:02.750,0:28:09.740
needed deep pressure yes or sitting in

0:28:06.530,0:28:13.190
the dentist’s office she would get

0:28:09.740,0:28:15.890
anxious so she would pull me into her

0:28:13.190,0:28:19.690
lap she knew what she needed even though

0:28:15.890,0:28:22.400
she wasn’t verbalizing it and I realized

0:28:19.690,0:28:24.290
okay we’re in an anxious place we’re

0:28:22.400,0:28:26.270
about to go into the dentist she’s not

0:28:24.290,0:28:27.800
verbalizing that she’s not telling me

0:28:26.270,0:28:30.860
she’s anxious because she really wasn’t

0:28:27.800,0:28:33.380
isn’t able to do that but she can show

0:28:30.860,0:28:35.120
me with her behavior mom sit in my lap

0:28:33.380,0:28:36.290
sit here sit here and it looked really

0:28:35.120,0:28:40.190
ridiculous because here’s the

0:28:36.290,0:28:43.490
seven-year-old with a woman who’s in her

0:28:40.190,0:28:45.890
forties sitting in her lap get a few

0:28:43.490,0:28:48.410
looks in the waiting room but that was

0:28:45.890,0:28:50.720
that deep pressure that I learned that

0:28:48.410,0:28:51.890
on a whim one day when she was

0:28:50.720,0:28:54.560
absolutely

0:28:51.890,0:29:00.380
losing it and I didn’t know what else to

0:28:54.560,0:29:01.820
do and I had read in one of my books and

0:29:00.380,0:29:04.880
it might have been the out of sync child

0:29:01.820,0:29:07.340
um or it might have been Deborah Gray’s

0:29:04.880,0:29:10.250
book but I learned about the the couch

0:29:07.340,0:29:12.500
sandwich and so I lifted her up and I

0:29:10.250,0:29:14.810
put her on the couch she was having a

0:29:12.500,0:29:18.470
tantrum and I put the pillows back on

0:29:14.810,0:29:20.870
top of her and I sat very gently only

0:29:18.470,0:29:23.780
putting like 25% of my weight on her

0:29:20.870,0:29:26.830
squatting on her and I hear from under

0:29:23.780,0:29:30.710
the covers under the pillows harder

0:29:26.830,0:29:33.260
deeper and I’m like okay she likes this

0:29:30.710,0:29:35.510
so I sat a little more in it well to

0:29:33.260,0:29:38.210
make a long story short that’s how I

0:29:35.510,0:29:40.040
learned that she absolutely had to have

0:29:38.210,0:29:43.670
deep pressure and then of course ice

0:29:40.040,0:29:46.760
using my attunement I noticed we love

0:29:43.670,0:29:48.230
carrying in ten bags of groceries even

0:29:46.760,0:29:51.400
though we’re four and a half we’ve got

0:29:48.230,0:29:54.470
them lined up on her off you know or

0:29:51.400,0:29:56.270
we’re going to the park with friends no

0:29:54.470,0:29:58.670
make all the friends get in the wagon

0:29:56.270,0:30:00.980
and I insist I have to pull it even

0:29:58.670,0:30:03.490
though I’m four and a half okay she

0:30:00.980,0:30:05.720
wasn’t being defiant she was saying I’m

0:30:03.490,0:30:08.570
walking with friends this is just

0:30:05.720,0:30:10.760
regulating I’m overexcited about what

0:30:08.570,0:30:12.290
I’m going to get to do at the park let

0:30:10.760,0:30:16.100
me call my body

0:30:12.290,0:30:18.770
she was actually working it out yes yes

0:30:16.100,0:30:20.690
the other beautiful thing is that a lot

0:30:18.770,0:30:23.780
of times they are trying to work it out

0:30:20.690,0:30:25.880
themselves like in their daughter

0:30:23.780,0:30:28.370
stomping what do our children do when

0:30:25.880,0:30:31.070
they’re upset they stomp their feet what

0:30:28.370,0:30:38.980
do we do when we’re upset we stomp our

0:30:31.070,0:30:41.690
feet yeah yeah so so I think that that

0:30:38.980,0:30:44.930
recognizing that and looking back on

0:30:41.690,0:30:47.150
those little ways that you that you

0:30:44.930,0:30:49.310
figure that stuff out I think is so

0:30:47.150,0:30:53.240
important I think and I think that

0:30:49.310,0:30:56.060
parents now doing this at home trying to

0:30:53.240,0:30:58.400
do it at home figuring out those those

0:30:56.060,0:31:01.640
things like I I know that I have I know

0:30:58.400,0:31:03.920
a parent who has a child who has I call

0:31:01.640,0:31:05.620
it the reflexive throw you know like

0:31:03.920,0:31:09.400
throw

0:31:05.620,0:31:11.800
and and so what we suggested was get a

0:31:09.400,0:31:14.740
laundry basket and socks and so when you

0:31:11.800,0:31:17.080
start seeing something get thrown throw

0:31:14.740,0:31:20.380
just throw in the laundry basket

0:31:17.080,0:31:23.080
something that can be thrown or go

0:31:20.380,0:31:26.290
outside and throw something that can be

0:31:23.080,0:31:29.770
thrown because something about that need

0:31:26.290,0:31:31.809
to throw something about that need to

0:31:29.770,0:31:34.960
throw mm-hmm yes

0:31:31.809,0:31:38.920
you know I’m thinking it’s somehow

0:31:34.960,0:31:40.929
giving input into the joint yeah you

0:31:38.920,0:31:42.640
know which you talked about in the in

0:31:40.929,0:31:45.940
the survive and thrive you know a lot of

0:31:42.640,0:31:49.920
our kids like to pull their knuckles and

0:31:45.940,0:31:53.429
and you know constantly cracking things

0:31:49.920,0:31:57.520
because their body is seeking that input

0:31:53.429,0:31:59.590
another one was flipping upside down so

0:31:57.520,0:32:01.210
I know my daughter went through about a

0:31:59.590,0:32:03.040
whole year where she loved flipping

0:32:01.210,0:32:05.230
upside down so he did a lot of stuff at

0:32:03.040,0:32:09.360
the playground where I would hang her

0:32:05.230,0:32:09.360
upside down I would spot her you know

0:32:09.540,0:32:17.410
but you know or deep pressure and upside

0:32:14.290,0:32:20.470
down which was watching television on

0:32:17.410,0:32:22.750
her head on the couch when she was

0:32:20.470,0:32:26.620
little you know but but I learned later

0:32:22.750,0:32:29.020
on huh that’s why you did that but I

0:32:26.620,0:32:32.890
think if I had if I was starting out now

0:32:29.020,0:32:34.900
I think if I had to give parents advice

0:32:32.890,0:32:36.850
what I would do is take something like

0:32:34.900,0:32:39.400
the the activities you have in the

0:32:36.850,0:32:41.380
survive and thrive or or go get yourself

0:32:39.400,0:32:43.929
a copy of the out-of-sync child has has

0:32:41.380,0:32:47.980
fun because this is the one that has the

0:32:43.929,0:32:50.559
lists of activities and then experiment

0:32:47.980,0:32:53.980
and and so that’s number one

0:32:50.559,0:32:55.870
get yourself a little cheat sheet um my

0:32:53.980,0:32:57.670
cohort members and colleagues that know

0:32:55.870,0:33:00.730
I’m all about the cheat sheet there’s no

0:32:57.670,0:33:02.470
point reinventing the wheel so um you

0:33:00.730,0:33:04.780
know keep a cheat sheet around maybe

0:33:02.470,0:33:07.510
write up some and stick it on the fridge

0:33:04.780,0:33:09.880
and just go through try oh okay that

0:33:07.510,0:33:12.580
didn’t work but a pasar negative next to

0:33:09.880,0:33:14.679
it and just move on and eventually if

0:33:12.580,0:33:17.050
you do that for a couple weeks you’re

0:33:14.679,0:33:19.389
going to have a list of things that well

0:33:17.050,0:33:21.969
that seemed to work okay

0:33:19.389,0:33:25.869
right so you’ve got your list number two

0:33:21.969,0:33:29.409
is give yourself lots of grease this is

0:33:25.869,0:33:32.879
not about being perfect we we are

0:33:29.409,0:33:35.379
working to give our children

0:33:32.879,0:33:37.749
unconditional love all the time even

0:33:35.379,0:33:41.200
when they’re not at their best okay

0:33:37.749,0:33:44.459
that starts within ourselves that when

0:33:41.200,0:33:48.070
we can give ourselves unconditional love

0:33:44.459,0:33:50.320
you know the the love that Brene brown

0:33:48.070,0:33:54.039
talks about if we’re just doing good

0:33:50.320,0:33:56.950
enough you know that is a thing good

0:33:54.039,0:33:59.440
enough parenting so let’s embrace that

0:33:56.950,0:34:02.049
instead of saying I messed that up I

0:33:59.440,0:34:04.059
misread that they like swinging that was

0:34:02.049,0:34:05.799
a total disaster they came home from the

0:34:04.059,0:34:09.720
park after that swinging and they were

0:34:05.799,0:34:13.599
so dysregulated tomorrow’s the new day

0:34:09.720,0:34:18.250
if if you if you’re if you enjoy the

0:34:13.599,0:34:19.809
book Lily Lily’s plastic purse read that

0:34:18.250,0:34:22.480
book if you haven’t ever read it it’s

0:34:19.809,0:34:24.190
for yourself it’s by Kevin I don’t know

0:34:22.480,0:34:27.099
if he pronounces it have hankies or

0:34:24.190,0:34:29.319
Henkes but um it’s about a little girl

0:34:27.099,0:34:33.639
who has a really hard day at school and

0:34:29.319,0:34:36.129
I love the relationship her teacher

0:34:33.639,0:34:39.940
shows her when he hands her back the

0:34:36.129,0:34:42.159
object that she could not leave alone

0:34:39.940,0:34:44.049
which was her plastic purse she brought

0:34:42.159,0:34:46.240
to school so he had to take it away and

0:34:44.049,0:34:48.879
she was very very upset at the end of

0:34:46.240,0:34:51.970
the day he handed it back and he said

0:34:48.879,0:34:55.470
today was a difficult day tomorrow will

0:34:51.970,0:34:58.750
be better yeah

0:34:55.470,0:35:01.029
yes that’s what I always tell the

0:34:58.750,0:35:03.910
clients that I work with is that you get

0:35:01.029,0:35:08.529
as many reduce as your kids do do you

0:35:03.910,0:35:10.930
know like we all news and I think and

0:35:08.529,0:35:17.259
and I think it’s even okay to say to a

0:35:10.930,0:35:20.920
child Wow mom had that wrong yeah whoa I

0:35:17.259,0:35:22.990
thought that maybe you might like if I

0:35:20.920,0:35:24.880
put some cushions on top of you because

0:35:22.990,0:35:26.259
I have one child who who absolutely

0:35:24.880,0:35:28.180
would have hated that she doesn’t like

0:35:26.259,0:35:32.800
anything over her head or anything and

0:35:28.180,0:35:36.550
so oh oh whoa let’s

0:35:32.800,0:35:38.320
let’s try that again okay I wonder if

0:35:36.550,0:35:43.650
you’d like it if I just put the cushion

0:35:38.320,0:35:46.660
on your legs and then sat down slowly

0:35:43.650,0:35:48.640
okay that’s better yeah oh yeah because

0:35:46.660,0:35:51.360
you can see and you can feel you can

0:35:48.640,0:35:54.340
move your arms if you need to you know

0:35:51.360,0:35:56.740
yeah so whatever we’re doing with a

0:35:54.340,0:35:59.470
child you know a hug whatever we’re

0:35:56.740,0:36:03.160
doing we can always do a redo and just

0:35:59.470,0:36:05.440
fall on our own sword because we’re

0:36:03.160,0:36:07.240
teaching our children to that that it’s

0:36:05.440,0:36:08.680
okay to fall on your sword that they

0:36:07.240,0:36:10.570
don’t have to be afraid to come home

0:36:08.680,0:36:14.800
from school or come in from the

0:36:10.570,0:36:17.380
playground and say or not say lie and

0:36:14.800,0:36:19.720
keep it a secret that they wailed on

0:36:17.380,0:36:21.640
another child which we’re all mortified

0:36:19.720,0:36:24.580
by his parents but we want them to come

0:36:21.640,0:36:27.310
to us and say I totally lost it I

0:36:24.580,0:36:35.100
grabbed this thing from my friend or

0:36:27.310,0:36:40.720
slapped my friend you lost it yep yeah

0:36:35.100,0:36:43.030
that’s hard instead of instead of even

0:36:40.720,0:36:46.180
thinking that the perfection is the goal

0:36:43.030,0:36:48.520
right because that’s what we do and

0:36:46.180,0:36:50.970
that’s where and I know that as a parent

0:36:48.520,0:36:54.300
for me the hardest thing in the world

0:36:50.970,0:36:58.630
was what other parents thought mm-hmm

0:36:54.300,0:37:02.680
that was the hardest part it was easier

0:36:58.630,0:37:05.830
to embrace my children for who they were

0:37:02.680,0:37:09.730
and our parenting journey for what it

0:37:05.830,0:37:12.510
was and it was easy to do that until I

0:37:09.730,0:37:16.090
was faced with the judgment of other

0:37:12.510,0:37:18.850
people right it’s that that makes it

0:37:16.090,0:37:21.880
really hard I think sometimes and so

0:37:18.850,0:37:26.080
getting past that is it’s really I think

0:37:21.880,0:37:28.150
important yes yes and and you know we’re

0:37:26.080,0:37:30.280
going to be judged we’re all gonna be

0:37:28.150,0:37:32.530
judged and that’s just unfortunately

0:37:30.280,0:37:35.440
that’s part of human nature yeah it’s

0:37:32.530,0:37:37.090
the flipside of giving each other grace

0:37:35.440,0:37:39.490
and everything is there are gonna be

0:37:37.090,0:37:42.010
times what none of us are perfect all

0:37:39.490,0:37:43.900
right I still I still you know as much

0:37:42.010,0:37:45.670
as I fight against it I still have my

0:37:43.900,0:37:46.550
moments where I judge decisions my

0:37:45.670,0:37:49.280
children have made

0:37:46.550,0:37:51.050
my husband made but that’s my own stuff

0:37:49.280,0:37:53.210
I know that that’s that’s what’s coming

0:37:51.050,0:37:56.270
up for me is something I think I seen

0:37:53.210,0:37:59.240
that but but the other thing is that we

0:37:56.270,0:38:00.770
have to remember that um I think it’s

0:37:59.240,0:38:02.900
called the spotlight effect but that

0:38:00.770,0:38:05.690
idea that people are really looking at

0:38:02.900,0:38:06.590
us really the majority of people are not

0:38:05.690,0:38:08.810
looking at us

0:38:06.590,0:38:10.820
they’re not judging us and and some of

0:38:08.810,0:38:13.970
those parents at the checkout line who

0:38:10.820,0:38:16.790
see us with the child who’s losing it we

0:38:13.970,0:38:19.010
we think they’re all thinking wow can’t

0:38:16.790,0:38:21.410
she control that child that child is you

0:38:19.010,0:38:24.260
know what a spoiled child actually some

0:38:21.410,0:38:25.640
of these parents are probably afraid to

0:38:24.260,0:38:27.560
say anything but they’re saying they’re

0:38:25.640,0:38:30.590
going oh my gosh I’ve been there at that

0:38:27.560,0:38:32.480
poor woman that poor dad I wish I could

0:38:30.590,0:38:34.070
step in for them I wish I could help but

0:38:32.480,0:38:36.830
they might think I’m intruding they

0:38:34.070,0:38:39.590
might think I’m judging them so to also

0:38:36.830,0:38:41.660
remember that sometimes we lay extra

0:38:39.590,0:38:44.690
stuff on what we think other people are

0:38:41.660,0:38:53.030
thinking about I have definitely been

0:38:44.690,0:38:57.410
thinking yes the other thing I wanted to

0:38:53.030,0:39:00.050
mention too is you know in we have all

0:38:57.410,0:39:03.500
these ideas in this packet that we’ve

0:39:00.050,0:39:07.550
put together and it’s this it’s this big

0:39:03.500,0:39:09.500
nice pretty package but we don’t ever

0:39:07.550,0:39:11.450
expect for families to be able to

0:39:09.500,0:39:16.160
integrate that all at once

0:39:11.450,0:39:18.320
right I always worry that like for me it

0:39:16.160,0:39:22.040
was easy for me to integrate things

0:39:18.320,0:39:24.740
slowly instead of everything at one time

0:39:22.040,0:39:27.020
and I love that you mentioned you know

0:39:24.740,0:39:29.060
coming up with a cheat sheet and trying

0:39:27.020,0:39:31.700
things here and there but it doesn’t

0:39:29.060,0:39:35.000
have to be all at once right and in fact

0:39:31.700,0:39:37.070
I much advocate against that because

0:39:35.000,0:39:40.240
it’s kind of like anything in life if

0:39:37.070,0:39:43.130
you set your expectations really high

0:39:40.240,0:39:47.120
you’re just putting so much pressure on

0:39:43.130,0:39:48.590
yourself and your family I I learned

0:39:47.120,0:39:52.460
this through

0:39:48.590,0:39:54.950
luckily uh you know people advised us of

0:39:52.460,0:39:56.860
this and so I followed it other parents

0:39:54.950,0:40:00.890
advised us when we started doing this

0:39:56.860,0:40:04.130
kind of incorporating time every day to

0:40:00.890,0:40:08.090
on have relationship and regulate you

0:40:04.130,0:40:14.000
know around that is I started very small

0:40:08.090,0:40:16.400
so 5-10 minutes you know I love your

0:40:14.000,0:40:20.300
two-minute thing you weren’t dedicating

0:40:16.400,0:40:21.860
a whole 45-minute trip for a cup of tea

0:40:20.300,0:40:25.310
with your daughter every day when you

0:40:21.860,0:40:26.840
picked her up you know small um it’s

0:40:25.310,0:40:28.450
like what I teach my clients when I’m

0:40:26.840,0:40:31.130
teaching the mindfulness and meditation

0:40:28.450,0:40:32.810
we don’t need to get the whole altar out

0:40:31.130,0:40:34.910
we don’t need to get you know the

0:40:32.810,0:40:36.710
tablecloth and the incense candles so we

0:40:34.910,0:40:39.670
need to up we can’t do this until we can

0:40:36.710,0:40:43.370
sit in a lotus position literally a

0:40:39.670,0:40:47.120
one-minute body scan and you have now

0:40:43.370,0:40:50.060
done your first meditation yes okay

0:40:47.120,0:40:52.850
unifor walk to the end of the block

0:40:50.060,0:40:58.580
counting how many trees you’ve done your

0:40:52.850,0:41:02.180
first mindfulness based walk Hey very

0:40:58.580,0:41:06.290
simple so if you’re one like me who

0:41:02.180,0:41:10.340
tends to be an overachiever lower that

0:41:06.290,0:41:14.930
bar way down you know and say this week

0:41:10.340,0:41:19.460
I’m going to just start keeping a list

0:41:14.930,0:41:23.360
of when my child seems to be losing it

0:41:19.460,0:41:25.490
and what might have been going on that’s

0:41:23.360,0:41:28.160
it that’s just their only task for this

0:41:25.490,0:41:29.750
week is just to to practice that a too

0:41:28.160,0:41:33.290
much I know you’re gonna have some more

0:41:29.750,0:41:36.410
on a treatment and then maybe the next

0:41:33.290,0:41:40.220
week is I’ve got five things on this

0:41:36.410,0:41:42.890
thing on the fridge I when I see my

0:41:40.220,0:41:47.240
child start to what I think is start to

0:41:42.890,0:41:50.480
maybe um in parent lingo lose it I’m

0:41:47.240,0:41:54.020
gonna reach out in a relational way with

0:41:50.480,0:41:57.530
one of these things and then I’m gonna

0:41:54.020,0:41:59.690
see if that works so for me that might

0:41:57.530,0:42:01.730
have been hope it looks like we’re

0:41:59.690,0:42:04.460
losing it let me see if I can jump in

0:42:01.730,0:42:06.470
with some relationships some fun which

0:42:04.460,0:42:09.520
Karen Buckwalter does a good job of

0:42:06.470,0:42:12.290
incorporating that into her book

0:42:09.520,0:42:14.300
parenting the challenging child raising

0:42:12.290,0:42:17.540
the challenging child yeah

0:42:14.300,0:42:19.610
but I think of this example that I used

0:42:17.540,0:42:22.580
myself that’s in her book where maybe

0:42:19.610,0:42:24.080
you jump down on all fours your child is

0:42:22.580,0:42:26.690
losing it all of a sudden they’re like

0:42:24.080,0:42:29.180
whoa what’s going on mom’s down on all

0:42:26.690,0:42:31.070
fours and then you say I wonder how fast

0:42:29.180,0:42:33.740
I can crawl around this kitchen island

0:42:31.070,0:42:35.330
you know I wonder if you could crawl

0:42:33.740,0:42:37.010
faster than me okay

0:42:35.330,0:42:38.480
so what you’ve just done there is you’ve

0:42:37.010,0:42:40.850
connected

0:42:38.480,0:42:44.330
you’ve or tried to make a connection

0:42:40.850,0:42:46.610
you’ve made it fun and you’re getting in

0:42:44.330,0:42:49.220
that body input because they’re crawling

0:42:46.610,0:42:52.790
around on all fours okay might be an

0:42:49.220,0:42:53.900
epic fail might not right we call that

0:42:52.790,0:43:03.590
in our houses squirrel

0:42:53.900,0:43:09.050
oh what a squirrel we’re version version

0:43:03.590,0:43:11.180
really quickly yep the last thing I

0:43:09.050,0:43:13.160
wanted to just touch on with you is we

0:43:11.180,0:43:14.660
talked a lot about regulation and we’ve

0:43:13.160,0:43:18.170
talked about the importance of

0:43:14.660,0:43:20.990
regulating ourselves as parents – I

0:43:18.170,0:43:25.070
think that something that happens I know

0:43:20.990,0:43:30.080
that was that took a long time for me to

0:43:25.070,0:43:33.230
really master was in the face of really

0:43:30.080,0:43:36.260
explosive behavior in particular I think

0:43:33.230,0:43:39.080
that that’s what I noticed with parents

0:43:36.260,0:43:41.810
is really that’s what gets really hard

0:43:39.080,0:43:49.520
is when you have kids that have really

0:43:41.810,0:43:55.010
explosive pounds being able to regulate

0:43:49.520,0:43:58.220
yourself so that you can respond in that

0:43:55.010,0:44:00.740
very quick moment like do you have tips

0:43:58.220,0:44:05.180
for that because I know for me what that

0:44:00.740,0:44:09.200
I really feel like my son was a gift for

0:44:05.180,0:44:14.060
that for me because I really did learn

0:44:09.200,0:44:17.890
from him that absolutely without a doubt

0:44:14.060,0:44:22.100
if I can’t get calm when he gets

0:44:17.890,0:44:22.640
explosive everything is it’s not going

0:44:22.100,0:44:25.940
to be okay

0:44:22.640,0:44:28.280
I have to learn how to do that and so

0:44:25.940,0:44:31.160
for me it was there there was a

0:44:28.280,0:44:33.770
certain it was I had a mantra that I

0:44:31.160,0:44:37.190
would say my head and I would just say

0:44:33.770,0:44:41.380
strong as steel steady as stone in my

0:44:37.190,0:44:44.420
head then that helped me yeah back to

0:44:41.380,0:44:47.720
you know and then I would get calm and

0:44:44.420,0:44:49.430
he would it would I would Co regulate

0:44:47.720,0:44:51.290
with him and he would get calm too I

0:44:49.430,0:44:54.410
wondered if you had any thoughts on that

0:44:51.290,0:44:57.020
one yeah I got a couple quick ones

0:44:54.410,0:45:00.470
number one if at all possible and you

0:44:57.020,0:45:04.960
cannot control yourself I always give

0:45:00.470,0:45:08.510
parents the advice of which I got on

0:45:04.960,0:45:10.820
take a quick walk around the house if

0:45:08.510,0:45:13.340
the child is safe in the home obviously

0:45:10.820,0:45:15.590
the child has to be safe at home and so

0:45:13.340,0:45:17.450
obviously what I’m gonna bout to say is

0:45:15.590,0:45:19.250
not going to apply to all situations but

0:45:17.450,0:45:22.670
if you have a situation where this could

0:45:19.250,0:45:24.920
apply then you go out the front door and

0:45:22.670,0:45:27.500
you walk around just the perimeter of

0:45:24.920,0:45:30.230
your house or you walk up and down the

0:45:27.500,0:45:33.050
driveway you give yourself that five or

0:45:30.230,0:45:35.090
five ten not ten you know not ten

0:45:33.050,0:45:38.420
minutes but you know that mom’s gonna

0:45:35.090,0:45:41.570
count to ten kind of thing okay um I’ve

0:45:38.420,0:45:44.240
heard people say things like um you know

0:45:41.570,0:45:48.110
mom needs to take a break right now so

0:45:44.240,0:45:52.040
that I don’t get more upset and say or

0:45:48.110,0:45:56.390
do something that I might regret so

0:45:52.040,0:45:59.000
figure out what works for you but I

0:45:56.390,0:46:03.950
would sometimes do that as long as my

0:45:59.000,0:46:06.770
child was safe number two I know that

0:46:03.950,0:46:09.260
for myself there wasn’t a lot of injury

0:46:06.770,0:46:12.680
against me physical injury against me

0:46:09.260,0:46:15.830
except unintentional flailing of arms

0:46:12.680,0:46:18.410
banging rearing back of a head so

0:46:15.830,0:46:21.410
keeping that in mind I know some parents

0:46:18.410,0:46:24.920
actually are enduring intentional harm

0:46:21.410,0:46:26.900
against their selves and you really have

0:46:24.920,0:46:30.080
to do what’s safe I remember talking

0:46:26.900,0:46:33.860
with Tony hoi and reading in her book a

0:46:30.080,0:46:35.720
second time foster child about how she

0:46:33.860,0:46:37.610
would you know they they actually had to

0:46:35.720,0:46:39.200
separate their household and she would

0:46:37.610,0:46:42.050
how she would hold her son

0:46:39.200,0:46:44.150
and a hold on and there were a very

0:46:42.050,0:46:44.710
limited number of times that I had to do

0:46:44.150,0:46:47.839
that

0:46:44.710,0:46:49.250
with my child and it was mainly so that

0:46:47.839,0:46:51.470
she wouldn’t hurt herself like when

0:46:49.250,0:46:55.190
she’s laying and banging and things um

0:46:51.470,0:46:56.930
but I too had a mantra which then leads

0:46:55.190,0:46:59.480
me to how I handled when my child was

0:46:56.930,0:47:01.820
really losing it and that came out of

0:46:59.480,0:47:04.160
that paradigm shift and I think the

0:47:01.820,0:47:08.060
mantra I had that I used to self-soothe

0:47:04.160,0:47:09.520
myself was this isn’t about me she’s not

0:47:08.060,0:47:12.710
doing this to hurt me

0:47:09.520,0:47:15.310
she’s she cannot help herself she

0:47:12.710,0:47:18.200
literally cannot help herself

0:47:15.310,0:47:24.619
developmentally even if this child had

0:47:18.200,0:47:26.589
not endured on some issues early in the

0:47:24.619,0:47:29.329
early developmental period of her life

0:47:26.589,0:47:32.030
even if this was a child who we might

0:47:29.329,0:47:32.480
say is neurotypical no issues early in

0:47:32.030,0:47:35.420
life

0:47:32.480,0:47:37.369
kids have tantrums once we start

0:47:35.420,0:47:40.820
realizing that they are not doing that

0:47:37.369,0:47:45.920
to drive us nuts we can calm ourselves

0:47:40.820,0:47:48.140
better on also saying things like this

0:47:45.920,0:47:51.109
is this is not a reflection of my

0:47:48.140,0:47:52.970
parenting you know because my child is

0:47:51.109,0:47:55.670
losing it right now does not mean I’m a

0:47:52.970,0:47:58.130
bad parent it doesn’t mean I don’t love

0:47:55.670,0:48:01.640
my child so it sounds like both you and

0:47:58.130,0:48:03.079
I came up with these mantras to

0:48:01.640,0:48:05.119
self-soothe Parcells

0:48:03.079,0:48:10.579
you’re also breathing in and breathing

0:48:05.119,0:48:13.579
out and and I also found that the more I

0:48:10.579,0:48:15.950
learned to try to regulate myself at

0:48:13.579,0:48:18.349
other periods when my child wasn’t

0:48:15.950,0:48:21.950
losing it or didn’t need extra help and

0:48:18.349,0:48:26.660
attention that then I was in a better

0:48:21.950,0:48:29.599
state when they did need me on but I

0:48:26.660,0:48:32.540
think for not forcing things so what I

0:48:29.599,0:48:35.780
learned was I could not in the beginning

0:48:32.540,0:48:38.569
I could not hold my child she could not

0:48:35.780,0:48:42.770
handle that but she did not want me to

0:48:38.569,0:48:48.380
leave so I learned to sit on the twin

0:48:42.770,0:48:50.720
bed next to her bed and just listen so

0:48:48.380,0:48:52.579
be a listening presence to all the pain

0:48:50.720,0:48:52.920
that was flowing out of her because she

0:48:52.579,0:48:55.620
had

0:48:52.920,0:48:57.300
own loops that she was in and and I

0:48:55.620,0:49:00.330
won’t go into it but she used to say

0:48:57.300,0:49:03.720
statements and and I would just affirm

0:49:00.330,0:49:07.080
them I would not hmm that’s very hard

0:49:03.720,0:49:09.450
you know and acknowledging all of her

0:49:07.080,0:49:11.430
pain did not wasn’t again not a

0:49:09.450,0:49:14.370
reflection on me it’s like when I work

0:49:11.430,0:49:17.670
with couples I say agreeing with your

0:49:14.370,0:49:19.290
spouse’s position or being empathetic

0:49:17.670,0:49:22.410
with your spouse’s position does not

0:49:19.290,0:49:26.010
mean that you’re saying their point of

0:49:22.410,0:49:27.780
view is correct for you all you’re doing

0:49:26.010,0:49:30.830
is saying that given everything they’re

0:49:27.780,0:49:33.630
going through that makes sense right

0:49:30.830,0:49:35.640
right so we’re just doing that with our

0:49:33.630,0:49:37.380
children we’re just saying given

0:49:35.640,0:49:39.660
everything you’ve been through and how

0:49:37.380,0:49:41.370
you’re feeling today and the fact that

0:49:39.660,0:49:44.220
you know you went swimming for three

0:49:41.370,0:49:45.990
hours and your friend’s parent forgot to

0:49:44.220,0:49:49.560
get just snack and give me some water

0:49:45.990,0:49:51.120
and so now you’re totally you know that

0:49:49.560,0:49:54.750
totally makes sense

0:49:51.120,0:49:57.720
you know exactly exactly the reason I

0:49:54.750,0:50:01.770
said strong as steel Cestius stone is

0:49:57.720,0:50:04.470
because it was to reaffirm for myself me

0:50:01.770,0:50:10.860
beating soft with him did not mean I

0:50:04.470,0:50:14.490
wasn’t strong right right that’s yes yes

0:50:10.860,0:50:18.000
and I will tell you that that I think

0:50:14.490,0:50:21.780
culturally and definitely certain

0:50:18.000,0:50:25.740
periods in time in in our culture there

0:50:21.780,0:50:27.810
has been this feeling that if you are if

0:50:25.740,0:50:31.980
you say you’re sorry to your child if

0:50:27.810,0:50:36.030
you do a redo any of that that you are

0:50:31.980,0:50:40.650
then weak right if you ask for help

0:50:36.030,0:50:43.140
you’re weak and that is not the case

0:50:40.650,0:50:45.390
than in fact that’s why I think part of

0:50:43.140,0:50:47.460
why I love Bernays work is because she

0:50:45.390,0:50:50.520
really is working on trying to change

0:50:47.460,0:50:52.860
that cultural message yeah when I ask

0:50:50.520,0:50:56.250
for help I’m actually being very

0:50:52.860,0:50:59.700
courageous I’m leaning in I’m not being

0:50:56.250,0:51:02.820
weak that’s a brief thing to do and when

0:50:59.700,0:51:05.010
I’m giving myself Greece or I’m telling

0:51:02.820,0:51:06.099
my child who I made a mistake there

0:51:05.010,0:51:10.029
that’s

0:51:06.099,0:51:11.769
really a strong thing to do absolutely

0:51:10.029,0:51:13.960
and her work has absolutely changed

0:51:11.769,0:51:17.019
everything for us I don’t know if you

0:51:13.960,0:51:19.239
know have you seen yes yes and I

0:51:17.019,0:51:21.220
remember even way back when you were

0:51:19.239,0:51:24.789
saying you had put the mantra all over

0:51:21.220,0:51:28.930
the house and yes you had seen the

0:51:24.789,0:51:31.660
coloring book that we did yes that but

0:51:28.930,0:51:34.749
but yes that was it for me it was like I

0:51:31.660,0:51:37.839
I am NOT being weak

0:51:34.749,0:51:39.670
so say you know strong as steel said he

0:51:37.839,0:51:42.519
is stone that’s where that came from of

0:51:39.670,0:51:45.069
me just thinking okay I have to remind

0:51:42.519,0:51:48.690
myself that I am NOT being weak by being

0:51:45.069,0:51:51.579
soft with him in this moment you know

0:51:48.690,0:51:55.599
which is hot it was a hard that was a

0:51:51.579,0:51:57.729
hard shift because we are because there

0:51:55.599,0:51:59.289
is so much expectation to get this

0:51:57.729,0:52:02.109
behavior under control

0:51:59.289,0:52:06.640
yep acceptable golly I feel like I could

0:52:02.109,0:52:09.400
talk to you forever well thank you thank

0:52:06.640,0:52:10.960
you yes this has been so great I’m

0:52:09.400,0:52:14.559
definitely gonna have to have you back

0:52:10.960,0:52:17.380
again sometime well thank you tip I I

0:52:14.559,0:52:21.369
thank you so much my really my passion

0:52:17.380,0:52:24.940
in life is if I if I can help families I

0:52:21.369,0:52:28.059
really want to and I I want them to know

0:52:24.940,0:52:31.329
that you know they don’t need to be in

0:52:28.059,0:52:35.920
this on their own yeah absolutely

0:52:31.329,0:52:38.650
and and again I’m I’m I’m so grateful

0:52:35.920,0:52:41.019
for you to take the time to be here I

0:52:38.650,0:52:42.999
know you’re super busy and I’m just

0:52:41.019,0:52:44.349
really grateful and I’m sure that this

0:52:42.999,0:52:47.739
will be really helpful for a lot of

0:52:44.349,0:52:49.719
parents so thank you so much Jean and

0:52:47.739,0:52:50.619
thank you thank you too for everything

0:52:49.719,0:52:55.930
you’re doing

0:52:50.619,0:52:58.359
I love the packet I I love the fact that

0:52:55.930,0:53:00.249
it has really important information but

0:52:58.359,0:53:02.920
it’s presented in a very digestible

0:53:00.249,0:53:06.119
manner so thank you thank you for that

0:53:02.920,0:53:09.940
work and to your team you thank you too

0:53:06.119,0:53:14.069
okay we will talk again soon I hope have

0:53:09.940,0:53:14.069
a good day bye dear

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